 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2005-02-22 23:50
Does anyone play any German set-ups here?
I just saw the Vandoren Vienna and German mpcs, and was wondering would those mpcs work on french clarinets, like a Buffet? Or would there be a big difference? I remember licking the German set-up when I played the Wurlitzer at Clarinetfest, but I was thinking maybe I could just use a German mpc on my current clarinet, if that would work.
--CG
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-23 01:14
ooh! yea, my teacher said that you can't mix and match. but I don't know from experience.
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2005-02-23 01:57
Some do mix and match...many who use Wurlitzer RB and German clarinets use a French mpc. Sorry CG that I am not addressing your question specifically, as I have never tried the VD German or Austrian mpcs.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-02-23 02:06
I use a Selmer German style lay mouthpiece on my Amati German clarinet, and it works just fine. I've tried the same on the standard Selmer soprano horns in the past, and the result wasn't very pretty...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-23 02:15
what I'm wondering is why would a german mp sound bad on a french clar? what makes them so different?
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-02-23 06:18
it doesn't necessarily SOUND bad, but generally plays out of tune because the volume enclosed in the mouthpiece is different from that of the French style mouthpiece (even between different French System mouthpieces there is a variation- one of the factors that contributes to the different intonation tendancies of different mouhtpieces)
as an example
my Wurlitzer German System mouthpiece sounds great on my R13, and the upper register is in tune, but the lower register is ridiculously out of tune. On average 20c out of tune
donald
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Author: Bas
Date: 2005-02-23 09:11
In the Netherlands a lot of people use a Zinner German Mouthpiece with the Oehler bore and a Viotto N1 or N1+2 facing on a French clarinet.
They use Van Doren White Master 2½ or 3 reeds.
There is no problem with the tuning and the result is beautiful.
The mouthpiace is made in such a way that it fits in every French barrel.
If you use a German mouthpiece with the Reform-Boehm bore on a French clarinet you get intonation problems.
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-02-23 09:38
Bas knows where he's talking about....., I've also played in the past Viotto N1 on a Buffet Crampon RC clarinet. No problems with this combination, tuning was even better with the Viotto N1 than with a Vandoren french mouthpiece.....
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-02-23 11:40
the issue is not whether it is a german mouthpiece
but whether it has german BORE
Viotto makes mouthpieces with several different variations (including, Zinner french blank made in Germany, with German style facing)
many many many pro players around the world use mouthpieces made from Zinner blanks on French clarinets with excellent results.
i have refaced many Zinner blanks, and have played a Viotto/Zinner mouthpiece for the last 2 years on a French clarinet.
as my earlier posting says, it's the bore that is the most influential difference....
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Author: kennychw
Date: 2005-02-25 12:20
Hi
I used to play the Richard Keilwerth Top Sound 2000 German clarinet, but I have sold it..
I now use the Vandoren VD3 Wide German mouthpiece on a RC. The mouthpiece does not fit into the barrel perfectly as the mouthpirece tenon is about 2mm too long. It generally plays in tune.. except the lower clarion notes which are about 10 cents sharp
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Author: Bas
Date: 2005-02-26 11:44
I am not familiar with the Vandoren VD3 Wide German mouthpiece,but the tenon of a German type blank is 1mm longer than the tenon of a French type blank.For those who like to play a German type Zinner blank on a French clarinet,Zinner makes the tenon in such a way that it fits in a French barrel.So you have to make the tenon shorter or the barrel deeper.
In my experience the German type blank with the Oehler bore gives no problems.
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2005-02-26 17:13
Viotto rules....
they exist for German and Boehm clarinet . For Boehm he offers German facings (G3..., use Vandoren White Master), and "French " Facings (use V12)
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-28 22:13
ok- I will reiterate my past comment: and I quote "ooh! yea, my teacher said that you can't mix and match. but I don't know from experience."
but reading up on the subject helps...:
Quote:
There are two genres of "A" frames, the German and the French... the German "A" frame is much more accute and squat in apperance... the German "A" frame is not recommended for the French clarinet because it doesn't focus the sound adequately. The compatability problem lies in the bore concept of most French clarinets. Most have a great deal of tonal flexibility built into the bore design. This means the mouthpiece used on the French clarinet needs to supply much better tonal focus. The German clarinet is exactly the opposite. The bore design allows for less flexibility and variation in tone color. Therefore, the German mouthpieces must add much of the ingredient of flexibility of the sound. When you put a German style "A" frame mouthpiece on the French clarinet you are essentially coupling flexibility to flexibility. The result is a tone that is almost impossible to properly focus into a characteristic shape
excepted from "The Educators Guide to the Clarinet; a complete guide to teaching and learning the clarinet"- Thomas Ridenour
-Lindsie
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Author: Bas
Date: 2005-03-01 16:01
All the clarinetists in the Dutch top orchestras,like the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra.the Residentie Orchestra,the Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra,the Dutch Symphonie Orchestra,the Radio Philharmonic and Symphonie Orchestra,etc are playing the Würlitzer clarinets,most of them the reform-boehm system,and are using Zinner mouthpieces with a Viotto facing.They started clarinet playing on a French clarinet.So in Holland there is an influence from Germany and France.We are mixing the clarinets with mouthpieces and reeds from both countries.Therefore I and a lot of my colleagues do not agree with Mr Ridenour about the German style"A" frame mouthpiece on the French clarinet. For us the combination works very well.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-03-01 17:45
given the relatively uniform length of most mouthpiece blanks, the most important factor for intonation is the total volume contained in the mouthpiece- it must be the correct "amount of air" to match the acoustics of the rest of the clarinet.
once that is in order- the rest is TASTE
Zinner, for instance, makes "A Frame" style mouthpieces that work for French Clarinets. These might be described by some as "more German" yet are essentially designed for the French clarinet bore. Not my personal favourite but they work better than a lot of other mouthpieces out there. Whether Mr Ridenour was refering to these in particular is unclear.
donald
Post Edited (2005-03-01 17:53)
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2005-03-01 18:20
a very strange Quote. WHat does this all mean? For me not very meaningful or reproducable with physical facts because there are a lot of "buzzwords" (this reminds me to some Opus or later Signature brochures, where everything is "dark", "mature", "covered like a Wurlitzer".... even if the instruments are bright and brillant...)
Viottos mps are based on Zinner blanks for German / Boehm clarinet Usually the "German" facings are longer and narrower than the French facings. But aren't there some "american "facings which are also long and narrow? So try out what fits you best without any pseudo-theoretical background . If you prefer a long, narrow facing, Why not try a German facing? But really try first and then select (of course the blanc has to fit your clarinet system).
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-01 19:53
thomas.b wrote:
> a very strange Quote. WHat does this all mean? For me not very
> meaningful or reproducable with physical facts because there
> are a lot of "buzzwords"
I don't know what you don't understand, so I'll just define everything...
"A" frame: style of chamber width (there is wide, narrow, and "A" frame, which is just shaped like an "A")
bore: the part of the MP directly below the tone chamber; in French clarinets, the MP provides much of the tonal focus (as opposed to the German clarinet, which provides the tonal focus...rather than the MP)
therefore, putting a flexibly tonal MP on a flexibly tonal [german] clarinet would cause problems with tuning, and therefore means that the french MP doesn't work with the german clar.
anyone else who can explain the better, go ahead!!
-Lindsie
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-03-02 04:54
people also need to understand that Herr Viotto makes many different types of mouthpiece blank, not just different facings
(since i wrote this i realise i meant to say that Herr ZINNER makes different blanks....... as far as i know Viotto doesn't make blanks but i could be wrong)
Post Edited (2005-03-03 06:53)
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