 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2005-02-20 04:22
Hey all!
I just got into a fairly heated and lengthy argument with my director. We got a part in wind ensemble that in my opion is pretty difficult. It's very technical, steady sixteenths in less common keys (Bb minor and F# major) at up to 208. Other sections are very rhythmically demanding. The point of contention comes in the fact that he says it's not difficult. He can't understand why the section doesn't have the part worked up yet. He claims that technique isn't that hard. One practices the part slowly and bumps up the metronome. I guess I don't follow his logic. While the process is straight forward, that doesn't make it easy. Any opinions on this? Am I just being sensitive? Thanks.
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2005-02-20 04:39
I'd just say something like "ok.....", or "I'm sorry and I will try harder", and he will get off your back. As long as you get the part down well by concert time I don't see how it could be a big deal.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-20 05:15
Francesca said:
> It's very technical, steady sixteenths in less
> common keys (Bb minor and F# major)
> Any opinions on this?
Baermann III (Hite edition) - pages 49 through 53 ...GBK
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2005-02-20 06:27
Tell your director he's a jerk and if he wants to play the part perfectly he can, since it's SO easy.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-02-20 07:32
Really! Ask him to play it! But in reality it's really not you're place to question him...just learn the part and play it well on the concert.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-02-20 08:00
How about, "Well it doesn't seem that hard because you're THE PROFESSOR!!! To me, the student, it's hard." Anyways, he can't make you play it any better. You can only practice on your own.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2005-02-20 09:02
I'm not trying to continue the argument here. I guess what I'm really asking is what aspects of music make it difficult. There must be some reason that sight-reading is rarely a perfect performance.
BTW, I have looked at those pages of the Baermann and they made me say dirty words. I know that the part will be worked up eventually, but it's going to take time to get it under my fingers.
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Author: Marnix van den Berg
Date: 2005-02-20 11:01
I suppose if it's unfamiliar note-patterns (in more 'difficult' keys) then your muscle memory isn't up to it, even though you can actually read the notes at proper speed. Which is why practicing in those keys is so important, to build up your familiarity with them and ingrain it in your muscle memory.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2005-02-20 12:17
What piece asks for 16th notes at 208? Even in common keys that would be difficult for most people.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-02-20 12:25
Maybe you are being .....well, er, uh, ....sensitive...
Bob Draznik
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Author: William
Date: 2005-02-20 15:18
Your director is just trying to give you the confidence that you can learn to play what you percieve to be "difficult"--even "impossible"--if you try hard enough. He is saying, "Difficult??--I am confident that you can do it. Its not that hard". What do you want him to say--"Yes, it's too difficult for you to ever learn to play so you might just as well give up"--????????
I think that it is great that you have a teacher who believes in your ability and the quality of your future.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-20 15:39
I agree with the director. if you have practiced adequately, you should have your Bb minor and F# major scales down. That's the point of practicing scales dilegently. then, when you come to a piece such as the one of which you speak, it should not be hard, because it should all be under your fingers anyway.
(also, for practices other than scales, check out Carl Baerman- his books are wonderful for this kind of stuff- scales, arpeggios, thirds, broken scales/chords, etc. it REALLY works!)
and the way to improve IS to bring it home, play through it slowly, then slowly crank up the metranome.
>>"What piece asks for 16th notes at 208? Even in common keys that would be difficult for most people."
yea- I agree. even slurred, that is pretty fast...but not impossible
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2005-02-20 16:28
If the sixteenth notes are tongued, and the tempo is 208 there are a lot of clarinetists who can't maintain the 832 notes per minute required. Even if they are slurred, that's pretty quick.
Even people who are fast in the hundred yard dash can't sustain that pace for the mile.
You work at it as much as you can by gradually speeding up your metronome while practicing. By concert time, either you will have it or you won't.
Personally I'm more of a miler than a sprint man. I'm working at getting faster, but tonged sixteenths at anything above 120 (480 notes/minute) are very difficult for me. I play for fun and so far, they haven't thrown me out of the Wind Symphony.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-20 16:52
Although apocryphal -
Mozart: So, then, you liked it, you really liked it, sire?
Joseph II: Well, of course I did! It's very good! Of course, now and then, just now and then, it seems, a touch...
Mozart: What do you mean, sire?
Joseph II: Well, I mean, occasionally, it seems to have... oh, how should one say, um... How shall one say, Director?
Orsini-Rosenberg: Too many notes, your Majesty.
Joseph II: Exactly, very well put. Too many notes.
Mozart: I.. I don't understand. There are just as many notes, Majesty, as I required, neither more nor less.
Joseph II: But... uh, there are in fact, only so many notes the ear can hear in the course of an evening. I think I'm right in saying that, aren't I, Court Composer?
Salieri: Yes, yes. On the whole. Yes, Majesty.
Mozart: This is absurd!
Joseph II: My dear young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious! It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Just cut a few and it will be perfect.
Mozart: Which few did you have in mind, Majesty?
...GBK
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-20 18:09
LeWhite,
You have given some very bad advice to Francesca with "Tell your director he's a jerk and if he wants to play the part perfectly he can, since it's SO easy."
I don't know how it is in AU but in the US, we don't go around calling our directors (or parents, teachers, professors, or adults that are in leadership postions) jerks. If Francesca is a HS students and thus probably a minor, she could find herself in the principal's office, perhaps accompanied by her parents, very quickly.
Very bad advice!
HRL
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-02-20 18:52
Depending on how long you all have actually had the piece, the director may be trying to reassure you that you can do it, or he may be saying he doesn't want the woodshedding left until the last minute. I have been in groups where much of the individual practicing is left until later before the concert, and it makes the earlier rehearsals much less productive. GBK has been kind enough to note the appropriate Baermann pages for you. Now is you opportunity to learn them
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-20 20:25
LeWhite said:
> Tell your director he's a jerk and if he wants
> to play the part perfectly he can, since it's SO easy
That attitude is precisely one of the current problems with education.
Disrespect is rampant, and should never be tolerated in any school setting.
Every school I have ever been in quickly lets those students (and their parents) know that playing in band is a privilege, not a right...GBK
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-02-21 03:50
I'm afraid I'm with GBK on this one (having been a musical director in my day) if any one told me I was a jerk, it would be his last gig.
I can only assume that the band director plays something challenging like the triangle (or worse the trumpet) and not the clarinet?
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2005-02-21 03:59
I'm surprised it took everyone so long to see what I wrote!
It was in jest really. You wouldn't REALLY go and say that. But you'd certainly think it at first.
In any case, band director or not, no-one should be telling anyone else how hard or easy something is unless they're actually doing it themselves. So in that respect, your band director is a jerk! And he certainly shouldn't get into a "fairly heated and lengthy argument" with a student!
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! Buffet
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-21 11:05
LeWhite,
"It was in jest really. You wouldn't REALLY go and say that. But you'd certainly think it at first."
Why would you think that first? In jest, hardly.
"In any case, band director or not, no-one should be telling anyone else how hard or easy something is unless they're actually doing it themselves. So in that respect, your band director is a jerk!"
You are missing the point that the director does not have to prove anything to you; the person is the director. End of story.
If I might liberally quote from the old King Fu TV series "You have much to learn, grasshopper!"
HRL
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2005-02-21 11:36
Well I guess I just don't get it. I suppose here in Oz the whole band thing isn't a big deal, or at least wasn't when I was in high school. I prefer to be encouraged rather than told, as most probably do.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! Buffet
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-21 13:34
LeWhite- I agree, it is better to be encouraged than told, given positive reinforcement rather than being yelled at...etc.
however, no matter what age you are, or what level band you're in, one must always have respect for their director and private teacher for that matter.
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Author: SomethingCopland
Date: 2005-02-21 23:28
mkybrain said
>I'd just say something like "ok.....", or "I'm sorry and I will try harder", and
>he will get off your back
A music director isn't professional if it takes an "I'm sorry" for him to get off your back. A music director is professional if it takes a relatively clean take to get him off your back. It sounds like a tough part. You don't need to defend yourself. It's music. Sometimes you can't play it perfectly and sometimes you have to take time to make it sound decent. Good luck.
GMDC
Stanley, Sydney, Russ, Michelle, David, Deborah, Chuck, Jon, Ricardo, Marc, Sabine, Elsa, Laura, John, Larry, Robert, Paul---They all know Copland.
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2005-02-22 11:06
Francesca:
To answer your question about what makes particular parts of music difficult relates back to familiarity. I have a private teacher Ann Wilcheck Schuessler and she comes up with these "Annisms" quite unintentionally and the one that applies is "this work is really easy except for the hard parts!"
I pretty well classify work into easy, difficult and freaking impossible. The thing is that with practice the freaking impossible stuff I'm now playing, difficult has become easy etc. We each bring a set of skills to the table and something that one person sails through can cause another person fits. Personally I spend more time having fits than smooth sailing...g There is nothing like hammering on three bars for 5 hours! Then it is onto the next three bars and the next...
Regarding your director, I'd almost be willing to bet he is a brass player and I'd also bet that the music your playing was written by a brass player. Nothing against brass players but they seem to love putting in these tremendously fast beat segments into woodwind parts. 16th notes at 208, well that's unsafe....g People have lost tongues doing that..BG! I can't help but think that depending on the size of your clarinet section that this might not end up sounding like several dozen chickens clucking very fast in a random pattern.
Like some other folks though, I'd like to know what piece it is your playing so I can burn it if it ever shows up at the community band I play with...g
Best
RW
Best
Rick
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-22 12:36
Rick Williams wrote:
>We each bring a set of skills to the table and something
> that one person sails through can cause another person fits.
I second that! hence the reason we could never classify one person as "better" than another when they are almost neck and neck. For example, the principal chair in my band is a little bit better at the technical stuff than I am, but I have better tone. And there is more to it than those two things, but, that's how music works.
...I wonder... what if, and maybe you'll throw this idea out right away, the clar. section (unless it's an orchestra?) split the parts up so that it wasn't so hard? Like, say you have 10 measures of straight 16th notes, what if half of you played 5 measures and the other played the next 5? I dunno, it sounds stupid, but if it's that fast, then you're not likely to stay together as a section, unless you're all good.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-22 15:01
Francesca,
Splitting the parts as suggested above is a very sensible way to handle a long. difficult, and exhausting passage. Just be sure that the director makes that decision after you suggest it.
There are many band transcriptions of orchestral works that follow the violin parts. What you can do with a bow is not the same as what can be played on a clarinet. Also, the key can be a real challenge and if the part was written and played on an A clarinet would lay much better.
The clarinet, as well as the flute, part on the band arrangement of Slavonic Dance #1 has some sections where parceling out the part among several players can be a valid consideration. The possibility of simplification is also a possibility but the director will have to make that call when considering the overall texture of the section in question.
HRL
Post Edited (2005-02-22 15:04)
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