 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Meri
Date: 2005-02-19 17:44
The mom of one of my clarinet students, who is 10 (11 in March, who also takes piano lessons (preparing for a Grade 7 exam, (though I think Grade 7 for a nearly 11-year-old is way too much, considering she is also rather small for her age and clearly straining at least physically) wants to drop clarinet lessons in order for their daughter to have more practice and lesson time for piano.
But, the student has told me she has been playing piano since she was 6, getting bored, and hates the pressure her mom puts on piano. (her mom wants her daughter to get her ARCT by the time she finishes Grade 8 in school. (which is completely unrealistic, especially physically!) She loves clarinet, and is practicing diligently. (her mom thinks she spends too much time on clarinet, but she only spends about 20-30 a day on it, and about halfway through Galper's method, book 1). She wants a break from piano lessons, but her mom won't give it to her.
I think her mom's idea of dropping clarinet will backfire. (the student told me she'll fail her Grade 7 piano exam on purpose if her mom does this!) I know students have come back to lessons refreshed and with issues they struggled with before lessons stopped disappear. (I have a clarinet student who did that!)
I suggested that she talk to her piano teacher about her feelings as well, but in the meantime, practice diligently on both instruments so that her mom may change her mind about believing that she can't handle lessons on two instruments. She is a lot more willing to drop dance lessons than clarinet, and maybe even stop teaching a couple of beginners. in order to have the extra lesson/practice time. She also gets extra credit in school for clarinet lessons.She's had 3 piano teachers in 4 years (is it any wonder, given all the pressure her mom is putting on her daughter?), perhaps her mom was hoping to inspire her again, but it's clearly not working. Her mom is even considering having my pianist teach her (I got the student through the church which I sing in a choir and sometimes clarinet for Sunday services; my pianist is also the music director/organist there) , but he knows the situation fairly well, and is going to tell her mom to let her have a break, (he, too thinks she is too young, and too small, for Grade 7 piano!) I see it as let her leave piano lessons while she still has some chance of enjoying playing the instrument!
Any other ideas to help her mom understand her point of view? The student wants to help with some of my clarinet students, in learning some of the piano parts. She's already done page turning for my pianist, and wants to learn the art of accompanying further. I know it's partly that the clarinet is relatively new to her (4 months now), but it's also band, too, and she's in very good one at school. (her school music teacher actively encourages private lessons, and recommends students struggling in school to take them, something I rarely see!)
Thanks,
Meri
"There is a difference between being flat and sounding in tune, and being in tune but sounding flat. The first I can live with; the second I cannot."
Post Edited (2005-02-19 17:49)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-19 17:51
Meri,
You are the teacher and the parent must make the decision; I'd stay out of the way once your opinion has been sought and you have expressed it. Getting caught between a parent and a child in their delibertions is not a fun place to be.
Although you have a vested interest here, be in the shadows and well out of the line of fire. IMHO, you need to cool it until the dust settles!
HRL
Post Edited (2005-02-19 23:35)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bnatural
Date: 2005-02-19 19:11
I can't blame you for wanting to make that decision or get her to make what I agree is the correct one but, like Hank said it's a bad idea... is she still going to continue clarinet in the school band even w/o the lessons?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pam H.
Date: 2005-02-19 21:03
I have to agree with Hank. As much as you want to be totally involved in your students decisions and lives, you can only tell the parents what your opinion is and let them hash it out as they may.
Another thing you mention is dance lessons and her teaching other students already. Can the kid back off on these things? Really, she's still a kid. Some parents really want to overcommit their children when they just need time to goof off and have fun while they are still young. JMHO.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-19 23:57
wow- I didn't even know 11-year-olds taught! I didn't start teaching until I was in my junior year of highschool- 17-years-old! sheesh!
this girl is seriously stretched WAY too thin! dance, piano, clarinet, school work... her mom is one type of person who I despise. almost living vicariously through her daughter.
but anyway, before I begin ranting about insane parents- I commend you for caring so much about one, individual student! It shows that you have passion, which is great. however, like the others, I have to say that the mother will probably be too stubborn to listen to your reasoning and will feel that you are butting into something that is "not your concern"
I think you can voice your opinion, but that's about it. make sure that this girl tells her mother how she feels. if her mom really cares about her, she'll let her daughter do what she wants.
a good friend of mine reluctantly played the violin when younger- her parents forced her. I think she would have rather played piano, but she had to play violin. Now she doesn't even read music, though she is passionate about it (listening-wise). it could happen if this girl's mom keeps forcing her to do something she wishes not to do. it's sad.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: larryb
Date: 2005-02-20 14:35
This is a great opportunity.
I would suggest you give the parent a copy of Elfriede Jelinek's novel "The Piano Teacher" ("die Klavierspielerin," in the original German). Also available in film version on DVD, but I think the book would be a less in-your-face approach.
All parents and teachers of young musicians should read this book. Jelinek won the Nobel Prize for literature in 2004.
Anyone else read this incredibly disturbing semi autobiographical novel about parental pressure, music, repressed sexuality, self-imolation, sado-masochism, and austrian society? Jelineck was an accomplished musician who studied at the Vienna Conservatory.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2005-02-20 20:35
My advice ... stay well out of it. Sounds like her mother is living her daughter's life for her ... a sad but not uncommon scenario.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2005-02-20 20:50
In my own experience, I've found it very valuable NOT to take on the appearance of trying to influence a parent or child to continue when the idea of quitting hangs heavy in the air. This is an opportunity not to fire a parting shot, present the parents with an Austrian psychodrama, or do anything else rash that would burn bridges.
I recently had an outstanding and happy sax student discontinue lessons because of basketball. He was a fast-moving beginner, and I had very high hopes for him. But sixth grade is not too late. He'll still has plenty of time to get serious about his horn--and if he practices on his own as well as he has with me, he won't be behind most of any of his peers.
His parents remain on my mailing list, and his semester evaluation simply says that he did a good job in his studies and is welcome back anytime.
Remember a few things when dealing with these situations, as they appear to come up with some frequency:
1 - The parents deal with a lot more of this kid's issues than you do, and it's hard to know what they have or haven't communicated to you.
2 - You never know whether the student is being straight with you but not with the parent, with the parent but not with you, or both or neither. Don't overestimate your rapport. Parents have often made the same mistake with a lot more experience under their belt.
3 - As stated above, give your opinions when asked, but don't be an advocate. Parents are likely to avoid you in the future if they sense a strong disagreement, and your opinion may be devalued in their eyes if they perceive you as having an axe to grind.
4 - This kid is just 11. She has time to recover from almost anything and still pursue a professional career. Don't overestimate the urgency of the situation.
5 - Be careful to confine any future contacts (I maintain a mailing list) to the parents, and not directly to the student. When I see former students I greet them strictly as a friend and never asked when they will resume lessons. Their parents know how to reach me if my services are needed.
In this situation it seems like you and the mother both have senses of urgency that come into conflict. I would advise you to keep very cool and not let a clash occur. You could have this kid back in a year or two if you play your cards right.
Allen Cole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Meri
Date: 2005-02-22 17:23
I had called her school music teacher to inform her of the fact that this student may no longer take lessons, and we talked about why. Apparently, from what her school music teacher told me, she's clearly way better off continuing the lessons and getting perfect on the practicing requirement (her rule is 4 days a week, 20 minutes a day), but it's an automatic perfect if the student takes private lessons in addition to school classes. (Piano or guitar lessons do not count) But since her mom wants to have more practice time for piano, having her stop lessons means she will have much less time for piano. (She takes a 30 min lesson). Her school music teacher will talk to her parents, I think it's partly her mom doesn't take me seriously because I'm relatively young. (Some older don't) The student would actually be praying trombone if she wasn't taking private lessons, which she really didn't like. (Clarinet she picked because of Spongebob)
Just hope for the best...but then, when someone has had 3 piano teachers in 4 years, and soon to go on their 4th, there may be something wrong with the way her parents have been dealing with private music teachers... And I would never want to keep a student who clearly didn't show much interest in the clarinet but still had solid basic skills and knew most of their range... This was the case with Connor, who is now 13 1/2, and stopped lessons last June. I can imagine if his parents had forced him to continue, I would have started not looking forward to his lessons plus he would have been pretty resentful of the fact. (He still plays, clarinet in the Grade 9 band, sax in the Grade 8, and takes private guitar lessons. Actually gave his guitar teacher a referral a few days ago, told me is one of his best students, because I taught him the basic scale/arpeggio patterns, and several practicing strategies) And his parents gave me 2 months' notice.
Meri
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-02-22 18:21
Meri,
I am an adult "restarter". I played as a kid, was in band from elem through hs, had private lessons from elem through the first year of hs. Then I basically stopped (after "slowing down"). I just had other priorities. I had quite a bit of potential and never even worked up to that potential and was still fairly good.
You know what? I'm not sorry I stopped. Sure, I could have been a better player, but I wasn't. So what? Those who really, really want it will find a way to get it despite what their parents do. This kid just sounds like a highly talented kid for whom clarinet playing ability is merely another one of her talents. She's worked hard at it, accomplished things, and is moving on. She may come back. She may not. And she may come back, not to you, but to another teacher who is less earnest, less possessive and less persistent about retaining clients than you are. I'm glad my teacher was not like you! ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) There's only so much you can do when a client/student/customer -- or in my own case -- patient (so I know from experience) leaves and if you go beyond that, it gets out of proportion, you seem desperate, the student will think there's something wrong with you and will become uncomfortable hearing from you or having to talk to you, not to mention how her parents will feel. No matter who's right or wrong, telling the truth or not. YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR DISTANCE. OTHERWISE, IT'S UNPROFESSIONAL.
In another post you mentioned that you had given up your day job and were pursuing music full time. Naturally, getting and keeping students is very important to you, but as the saying goes, if the only tool you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.
Hope this helps.
Steve Epstein
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-02-22 18:36
I think that what you told your student was good.
I have to disagree with some of the other writers, though. Some adult, you or one of her other music teachers should kindly and calmly sit down with her mother and tell her that you would like to see the girl continue with both instruments, that it would be good for her; but, that if she forces the girl to drop the clarinet, which she so obviously loves, it may very well cause the girl to rebel and not work as hard on piano. Also point out that her experience with each of the instruments actually helps with the other - playing clarinet can help her to see accompaniment from the other side, which will help her to be a better accompaniest, etc. Ask if there isn't some other activity that could be dropped or lessened.
I think that a kind and understanding talk with the parent could be useful; a confrontation, counter productive. Although the final decision is between the parent and child, having a disinterested outside opinion might be more persuasive than just the child talking to a parent. Having her piano teacher tell her this would be most productive, her school music teacher might be the second choice, you the third.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-02-22 19:39
No matter what the solution is it seems that situation is going to be pretty tough for all involved, and this is because of personal feelings primarily. The student should certainly be allowed the option of choosing the clarinet as their primary instrument...if one is forced to do something they dislike in life they tend to become high blood pressure victims and or prone to road rage. I think the teacher should sit down together with the student and present the issues in a forward and clear manner. ON top of this the student must not be made to feel guilty because of the outcome of any decision...
it seems strange but we hear of this an awful lot in the private teaching world...but consequently if the student is between the crossfire of the parent and teacher then they may just quit.
David Dow
Post Edited (2005-02-22 19:40)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-22 20:36
The mother is being unreasonable in my opinion. 3 piano teachers in 4 years clearly shows that there is a major problem here, and I'll wager that it isn't the kid at all which is the problem for at least 2 of them if not all 3.
There really isn't anything that you can do about it though as you will be beating a dead horse. Personally I feel that Clarinet lessons are more valuable than Piano lessons if it came to a choice, but that was my own. I could have been a piano major (as one of my Univ. Piano teachers Natalie Hinderas told me), but chose the Clarinet.
As you post, it is the mothers choice, not the students choice to do piano instead. But it is also the mothers check which pays the bill for the lessons, so it's completely out of your hands. What you could do however if you speak with her is to tell her that there are a lot more ops for band instruments performance wise (regional band, college ensembles) that Pianists are left out of.
But you have to remember that you are "just a paid person" like their maid, paper delivery person, math tutor, etc. and are disposable.
That relationship changes when the student and parent is serious about it, but when they aren't, that's exactly where you stand and you have to remember that.
Sad but true......
Just my opinion, but it keeps me in check when teaching the general public........
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-22 20:40
I have a clarinet teacher like you and I am happy about it. Because of her I stuck with the clarinet, rather than dropping it in 7th grade. She didn't force me either. Neither did my mom.
And in the beginning of this year, when I had kind of lost my love for the clarinet, she stuck with me through it all, telling me that she didn't want me to quit, but if that's what I wanted, I should do it. No one should stick with something they don't wanna do, out of obligation...or for someone else.
but she was so open with me- and let me be open with her. She was very understanding and she dealt with my horrible lessons. And after a time, because of this closeness, I felt badly that I was making her sit through these lessons, so I knew that I had to make a decision- stick with the clarinet, or drop it.
I stuck with it. and I am happy for it. And I am so happy that I had such an understanding teacher. Someone who cared about me as an individual and treated me as an adult (well, I mean, I am, but you know- she didn't patronize me...)
so I say I commend you for caring so much. let the student decide. ultimately, that's what one has to do. I know my other post was a bit different, but I feel like sharing this experience has made me open my eyes.
ultimately, it comes down to what SHE wants to do. you just have to be there for her and support her decisions, even if you dont agree with them.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Meri
Date: 2005-02-22 22:44
I decided I would not continue to teach her. Was actually hoping to get rid of a couple of other students instead of her, but I figured if she's had 3 piano teachers in four years, about to go on her 4th in 4, she was going to force me to work really quickly when she was to work on her Grade 4 clarine (her mom wanted her to skip the Grade 1 and 2 clarinet, which I'm okay with, even though she could have very well been ready for it this June), her mom's thinking that it's possible for her to have her ARCT in piano by the time she finishes Grade 8 in school (I don't think so...very few students 12 or 13 years old would be physically capable of playing music at that level--and so does my pianist!), and doing a Grade 7 and Grade 8 piano exam in two consecutive sessions. (Grade 7 in June, Grade 8 in August). Her mom told me she was going to return after she got her Grade 8, but I know from experience students rarely do so, plus Tuesday early afternoon is an extremely popular time for lessons for me (my Tuesday 6:30 student wanted to move up to an earlier time if it ever became available that day, and it looks like they're in luck), and really was the only time she could do it that didn't conflict with her other activities, my rehearsals, or my other students. It looks like a couple of waiting-list students also got lucky too. Perhaps I should have explained it to her THAT way.
Meri
"There is a difference between being flat and sounding in tune, and being in tune but sounding flat. The first I can live with; the second I cannot."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2005-02-23 06:41
I'm not sure what you mean by explaining things "THAT way", but there is no explaining to do. Anything that you say other than "it's been nice knowing you" or "thank you for your business" is going to make you look bad.
Customers don't care whether you have other students waiting in the wings. If you feel inclined to tell them about it, it's just going to look like sour grapes. If they wanted info of any kind from you, they would ask for it.
In this case your customer appears to have a very flawed game plan, but are set on it. It would be good for the mother to have the info and input that Don mentioned, but the timing is wrong.
I teach full-time too, and feel every bit of the sting that you do when a student discontinues. But others come, and nothing is gained by trying to keep the ones that want to go.
These situations can't be fought individually, it has to be systemic. Here are two things that have worked for me:
1 - set up business terms under which you will feel that you've been given a fair chance to do your stuff.
2 - Develop informativie literature for your students' parents that you can give them at the START of lessons. This is the time to give them the hard-sell on what this instrument and the world it lives in has to offer. There's no point in extolling teh virtues of clarinet study when the jig is already up. Do it earlier and you have a good chance of getting the parent over to your way of thinking.
Every once in a while, though, you're going to have a student quit. As others have stated, handle it professionally and don't look like you have an axe to grind. People may quit lessons themselves for any number of reasons, but many may still recommend you to others--unless you give them a reason not to.
Allen Cole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2005-02-24 00:15
Allen Cole (as always) has dealt with important issues here from a very positive viewpoint (are you a psychologist by chance?).
I'm so with him on the sour grapes point ... music is one of the only places where the mantra "there's no such thing as bad advertising" just does not work.
You've made the decision to drop her (sounds like too much baggage anyway), move on and reschedule and learn from the experience.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-24 00:20
Quote:
"there's no such thing as bad advertising" -that's not necesarilly ture! I've seen plenty of bad advertising!
this subject upsets me. but I stand by my old opinion of accepting her decision and supporting her, despite the fact that you may not agree. No hard feelings.
-Lindsie
Post Edited (2005-02-24 00:41)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-24 00:37
Oh yes, there certainly is "bad advertizing" when it comes to a teacher and the students.
Suggestion to leave it be on good terms and be glad that you don't have to deal with the Mother anymore.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
