 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Keith Ferguson
Date: 2005-02-12 18:20
I am hoping someone has experienced a similar problem with these or other reeds. My problem is I'm finding that a reed's playing characteristics may change substantially after 30 minutes of warm up or from occasion to the next (not day-to-day; I keep 8 to 10 reeds in rotation). For example, a reed that plays well during warmup or throughout one session will then become resistant and prone to whistling (as opposed to squeaking) and may then revert back to playing well the next time they are used.
Black Masters are designed for either German or Viennese mouthpieces, and are made on a blank that is slightly narrower and shorter than the Vandoren Traditional. When you compare them with the Traditional from the "butt end", they are noticeably thicker in the middle with a fairly sharply curved contour.
I break the reeds in slowly over a period of 10 to 14 days, and balance the reeds as necessary using Tom Ridenour's ATG System. I play on a pair of R13s with an M13 mouthpiece.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-02-12 21:54
I get this problem too. The only advice I can give you is that if you have a performance, don't test and set aside reeds until the DAY OF, and also when you're AT the performance hall (some are drier, higher elevation, etc. than where you may normally practice). Set aside the best four, put them in a lavoz reed case, and depend on those.
And also, just keep a bunch of reeds in rotation so that you have a good amount to choose from when you need to.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-02-13 04:40
Heres the deal with Vandoren reeds (in my humble opinion)
The tips of these reeds are too thin to vibrate properly. If you take the ATG thing to them, you will definately ruin them. DOn't use the ATG machine unless you want to have reeds whose tips don't vibrate. About 2 of 10 V12s for example has a suitable tip for vibrating. If you want to see this for yourself, examine the tip. A little springyness is what you want. Most Vandorens are like tissue paper and deserve the wall test.
The best bet is to not use black masters. There is too much wood in the heart, and not enough in the tip.
As far as the reed only staying good for 30 minutes....it is probably getting soaked, and then not vibrating. Try to play it less and let it dry more. Also, you might want to not adjust the reed until you absolutly have to...then ...don't use any ATG - use either rush, or your fingernail, if you take off as much wood as that ATG thing takes, you will collapse the reed in five seconds, especialy a vandoren.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-02-13 04:49
Rod (and others),
I've had pretty good success with the ATG system and vandoren reeds. However I start out with vandoren 5 reeds and work those down. Seems to be the best combination from everything that I've tried so far. I couldn't even tell you what size reed fits on my mouthpiece because it's been so long since I've bought a "correct" size. Now I buy too thick and use the ATG as I go. And it sounds and plays (to me at least) pretty darned good.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-02-13 04:55
Yeah...i use size 5 vandoren, and the tips are too thin. Maybe you have a more open mouthpiece. I tried the ATG, a lot of my colleagues laughed because i paid 50 bux for that thing, and it doesn't improve reeds. It takes off too much wood and causes them to collapse in 5 seconds.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-02-13 05:04
Rod,
Yup. I'm back on the greg smith. More open than the gigliotti. the ATG works well for me. Seems like it'd be the same principle as the reed rush, just not as specific on what you can target.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2005-02-13 05:27
Hey all,
I just felt I should chime in here quickly regarding the tip thickness. The thickness of the tip of a reed has no baring on the attributed strength. In the Vandoren reed making process, all the reeds are cut to the same dimensions (so they say). After the reeds are cut, they are sent to a machine that tests the resistance of the tip of the reed. The machine grades them with a numerical number and then sorts it into the appropriate bin for packaging. Vandoren came out and did an "inservice" at a local music store about the reed making process.
The strength of a reed is determined naturally before the plant is ever cutdown to make the reed. Vandoren can't make specific reed strengths. They only get what nature hands them.
If the tips are actually too thin, then all of Vandorens should have tips that are too thin because that's how they're cutting them.
If I've confused any of you, let me know and I'll see if I can explain better.
-pat
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-02-13 07:26
You can try my method. You find a good reed, play it to death (or like me, play with it long after it dies), then throw it away and get a new one. Works for me.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2005-02-13 11:18
Keith, give Gonzalez a go, you might like them.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
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Author: Keith Ferguson
Date: 2005-02-13 21:05
Thanks all for your thoughts. Some interesting observations about Vandoren's design and how to "size" their reeds to your mouthpiece. LeWhite, I tried Gonzalez more than a year ago and wasn't sure I was any better off, but it may be a good idea to give them another try.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-02-14 12:22
A vote for the ATG system -
I've played Gonzalez FOF for a couple of years now and am very happy with them.
Just for an exercise, with the ATG Sysytem, I had a go at balancing and regulating a box of Vandoren V12's which I had consigned to the "spare" box over three years ago.
I pulled some crackers from a bunch of "duds" I got 9 out of ten to play. 5 well and 4 of them concert standard all this in just over 30mins. I'm playing them this week in Titanic - I trust the reeds will float.
Bob T
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2005-03-02 21:30
Hey. I play on these reeds and I love them. they provide more resistance and therefore better sound than the regular Vandorens and even the V12s.
My setup is a Hawkins mpc and a Vandoren Optimum lig and it works great for me.
everyone's facial muscle structure is different, so different setups work for different faces. not neccessarily better or worse, just different
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Author: Keith Ferguson
Date: 2005-03-02 22:13
Clarinets1, nice to hear from someone who plays on Black Masters. Have you experienced any of the problems I mentioned in my initial post?
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Author: graham
Date: 2005-03-03 07:45
I use black masters on one of my mouthpieces. I haven't encountered those problems.
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Author: Bas
Date: 2005-03-03 11:37
You can contact reed manufactures in Germany and Austia via the links of AW-Reeds( Sponsor of the Clarinet Pages).The are also making reeds for Viennese facings.The tip of these reeds is thicker.
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