 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kfeder@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-02-09 21:22
I've never used a C clarinet and I was wondering about how it compares to a Bb..... does it use the same fingering for the notes as the Bb clarinet? And I assume it plays music for C instruments without transposing? Is it difficult to adjust to playing a C if one is used to playing a Bb?
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Author: susieray
Date: 2005-02-09 21:27
I have one of Tom Ridenour's C clarinets, and I have no trouble adjusting to it. The C clarinet is of course a little smaller than a Bb, but uses exactly the same fingering. And yes, you can use it to play C parts without
transposing. It is also fun to play compositions for oboe on it.
Sue
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-02-09 23:46
I think it was GBK who (quite insightfully) said that the C clarinet has a "rather matter of fact" tone quality. I see his point on this, but I find the slightly innocent quality of the C clarinet rather charming. I guess it boils down to personal taste.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: kfeder@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-02-10 00:47
I was considering using a C for this klezmer group that I am in partly because a lot of the music is not available for Bb clarinet
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2005-02-10 04:12
I bought one just so I wouldn't have to transpose music. I can use the B flat mouthpiece with it and also I put a B flat bell on it, to give it a bigger sound. Easy to get used to and fun to play. Mine is a Noblet.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2005-02-10 05:01
>>What does a redenour c clarinet cost?
I believe I spent about $1100 on mine. I have never purchased a new clarinet other than this one, so it is actually the most expensive one I
have LOL
I have heard that it can be hard to find a C clarinet that plays in tune, but this one is great. You can Google "Arioso C Clarinet" and read about them. I got mine direct from Tom and it was set up and tuned by him. I really like it a LOT!!!!
I use mine in church every week, and I play right out of the hymn book. I use the shorter barrel since our church organ is tuned to 442. I also use the shorter barrel to play polkas with my accordian player friend. I use a Bb mouthpiece on it and it seems to work just fine that way.
Sue
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2005-02-10 05:21
Kfeder, you say you say you want the C to play klezmer and in fact C's (along with Bb's) are used to play klezmer. I believe the Albert system C's used for playing Greek folk music are referred to as "clarinos".
You should post your question on the Klezmer board here.
I play a Patricola C, mainly for keltic type music played along with fiddles. The tone is defintely a little thinner and brighter, and I find the notes beginning with the E on the third line above the staff harder to emit in tune than on my old Evette-Shaeffer Bb, but this may also be because on the C, I maybe should be using some resonance fingerings I'm unaware of.
IMHO, if you are not going to use the C to play classical music (other than that specifically written for the C), having a specific type of tone (i.e., dark) is a secondary issue, with blending your sound with that of your bandmates and having an overall pleasant sound being more important.
Steve Epstein
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-02-10 14:30
There's a full step between Bb and C, and comparing my Buffet Bb and C instruments, there's about twice the difference as between my Bb and A. That is, the difference is quite noticeable.
The C is brighter than the Bb and a little harder to control. It's also more difficult to play in tune, so it's critical to get an instrument that's in tune to begin with. You're almost half way to an Eb. Finally, it doesn't blend as well with other woodwinds as the Bb. You need to treat it somewhat like an Eb and be careful not to let it stick out.
The C can wail, moan and laugh for Klezmer more easily than the Bb, and can also dance with the greatest delicacy. It goes to these extremes more easily than Bb, and it has a smaller "normal" area in the middle, which is not in the same place as it is on Bb -- it's a good bit lighter. It definitely takes getting used to.
I love my C.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-02-10 15:36
I've owned several C clarinets, including a Leblanc Noblet (my first one) and a Patricola. The Patricola had a much nicer tone (of course it was more expensive). They are nice little instruments and finger exactly like the Bb. It's fun to play without having to transpose--but I used mine for Klezemer and orchestral music. They have a distinctly different tone from the Bb, but are still lovely to hear.
Bear in mind that you probably won't use it as much as your Bb, so you might want to look into getting one of Buffet's new E-11 model C clarinets. I play-tested one of these at International Musical Suppliers in Des Plaines, IL a couple of years ago. Lisa Argiris usually has some. Get a Chadash barrel with it and it makes all the difference. 1-800-762-1116 is the number if you want to call for a quote. I bought my Patricola from her.
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Author: kfeder@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-02-10 17:18
I noticed that wwbw have a "Woodwind" brand C clarinet for $399 and an Amati C for $525........anyone have any experience with these brands?
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2005-02-10 17:20
I have a Buffet E-11 C clarinet. Is brigther than my Bb and I feel it "drier" in my mouth. I have no problems with pitch till E7, then the intonation is very difficult.
Useful to play with guitars, when the key has many #, instead of Bb.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2005-02-10 17:32
I have a Leblanc Esprit in C that is a great little horn. Easy to play in tune. Nice tone (though definitely brighter than the Bb clarinet). Smooth action. I use it mostly for fiddle tunes and folk music (Irish, Bluegrass, etc.). I believe Leblanc discontinued this model which is a shame.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-10 18:14
javier garcia m said:
> I have a Buffet E-11 C clarinet.
> I have no problems with pitch till E7,
> then the intonation is very difficult.
No intonation problems until E7??
There isn't a clarinetist on the planet who doesn't have intonation problems between C7 and E7....
Are you sure that you don't mean E6? ...GBK
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Author: JamesE
Date: 2005-02-10 19:41
I'll admit to purchasing a Woodwind C from wwbw. It is actually a pretty nice little instrument and pretty much in tune until you get to the B or Bb above the staff. Then it tends to take a nose dive flat. If I had my druthers, I probably would not purchase one again.
But that said, it's working fine. I am also playing in church on clarinet/violin duets. Sounds great for that.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-02-10 19:57
I have a Patricola C clarinet that I purchased a couple of years ago from IMS. I asked Lisa to try out the ones she had in stock. The one she selected for me has a beautifully warm, sweet sound. I use a Morgan RM10 mouthpiece on it. I tried several RM10s along with several RM15 and RM28 pieces. I found the RM10 facing to be the best match for my C clarinet. Whereas, I use a RM28 most often on Bb clarinet. The particular RM10 I picked has a fatter sound than the other RM10s I tried. I'm extremely happy with this set up.
Roger
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2005-02-10 23:06
I think that my Bb clarinet with the Marca no. 2 reed on a Vandoren 5JB mpc is a real free blowing hotrod with a really dark sound that I was able to get, that is so important to me. A clarinet in the key of C, yikes! Among any size clarinet I prefer the higher pitched models because of my mcp and reed. But a C clarinet would be even more of a free blowing hotrod, huh?
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2005-02-11 01:38
Yes you can use the same mouthpiece actually if you want to. So therefore the B flat reed would be used too. I did not switch barrels but then I never thought about doing that.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2005-02-11 04:08
<<I did not switch barrels but then I never thought about doing that.>>
Um, I don't think switching barrels would work out too well anyway; the Bb barrel would be too long, and I imagine the bore would be all wrong for a C
clarinet?
Sue
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-02-11 06:01
I play my C clarinet more than 99% of the time. The other times I play my A and rarely my Bb. These are all Albert system Buffets. The C is basically no harder to play than a Bb. The main difference (and here the vocabulary is difficult because the words may mean different things to different people), is that the Bb tone (and the A even more so) is "thicker and richer." I want to say "wider." The C's tone is a little "narrower," mainly in the higher register. The other thing is this. On a Bb, naturally the higher you go the more difficult it gets. With a C clarinet, everything in the same fingering as used on a Bb is already higher! So, as you go up higher, it seems to be a little more difficult, because actually each note you play is higher than you would actually be getting from the same fingering on a Bb. I'm sorry if I'm not explaining this well.
The bottom line is, I love my C clarinet and prefer it over the Bb and A, but maybe I'm a bit crazy! :-)
Good luck, and get the C clarinet! You'll like it and really have no problems!
Best,
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-02-11 12:06
The subject of C clarinet mouthpieces has been discussed on other threads. But, in summary, some makes of C clarinets need a "real" C clarinet mouthpiece for good intonation and tonal quality -- in particular, in the throat tones. However, a Bb mouthpiece works fine on others. Patricola C clarinets are specifically designed to be used with a Bb mouthpiece. Whereas, a Bb mouthpiece didn't work very well on the first C clarinet I had which was a Buffet E-11. Ralph Morgan made a C mouthpiece for my E-11 and it made a very noticable difference in intonation and sound.
Bb and C clarinets, indeed, have a different type of sound. I find the C clarinet to have a smaller and lighter sound than my Bb. It's very much like the differences in sound between a c-melody and a Bb tenor saxophone.
It's important to remember that the classical composers who wrote specifically for the C clarinet did so for its particular tonal color. That is, because it's different from a Bb clarinet. It was not due to simply making the key easier for the player. At least, this is my understanding.
Roger
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-02-11 12:23
Roger wrote:
"It's important to remember that the classical composers who wrote specifically for the C clarinet did so for its particular tonal color. That is, because it's different from a Bb clarinet. It was not due to simply making the key easier for the player. At least, this is my understanding."
That is clearly true for the late romantic composers who used the C. It is much less clear that it is true for the likes of Haydn and Mozart.
Even if it were true, it is stretching a point to imply that Haydn and Mozart C clarinet parts should be played on a modern C in preference to a modern Bb. If you are going to use a modern instrument, use whichever is most convenient for you.
Robert Small wrote:
"I believe Leblanc discontinued this model which is a shame."
I don't know whether it is still manufactured, but the Spirit and Esprit C's are still listed as held in stock by Myatt's in England. They also list the Concerto C, but not as held in stock, and the Opus, held in stock but no price shown.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
Post Edited (2005-02-11 12:28)
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2005-02-11 18:21
GBK wrote
"No intonation problems until E7??
There isn't a clarinetist on the planet who doesn't have intonation problems between C7 and E7....
Are you sure that you don't mean E6? "
Thank you GBK, I made a mistake. Really I wanted to state E6.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-02-11 21:45
"It's important to remember that the classical composers who wrote specifically for the C clarinet did so for its particular tonal color. That is, because it's different from a Bb clarinet. It was not due to simply making the key easier for the player. At least, this is my understanding."
I've seen it written in at least two sources that Rossini wrote for the C clarinet primarily because his buddy liked playing it as his primary horn, hence the C parts in Rossini's original compositions.
Me, well I just get by on Bb . Russian Easter and Entry Of The Gladiators were the last two C parts that I had to play in an orchestra, and once you get "in the groove" running the transposition on the Bb horn goes smoothly enough. It also doesn't hurt that virtually every other clarinet player will have to be transposing alongside of you the while...
(I used to be as facile with the A to Bb transposition, but in the slough of despond that was the ending days of my first marriage, I bought an A clarinet and have ever since neglected my A to Bb skills. It has hurt my similar bass clarinet transposition, but it's so seldom used that I don't really care.)
I played a C horn for a year when in the Springfield (MO) Symphony way back in the 1960's, and I didn't find it hard to control or anything. I personally think that the "Eb/C = shrill, A = mellow" concept is one in the heads of players who primarily play the Bb horn. In the screened tests in which I've participated, players executing the same passage on the Bb, A and C clarinet (with parts transposed to equalize the pitch and ease the transposition problems) were indistinguishable between the various versions when overheard by other clarinet players when heard from behind a screen.
People talk about this stuff all of the time; we actually took the time to test it ourselves. I can't say that it converted anyone to the universal clarinet theory of one horn does all, but it sure was an eye-opener when someone couldn't hear how "mellow" you thought you sounded when playing the test passages on the A horn. Long and short of it is that the difference is almost entirely in the mind of the player, not in that of the listener.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Brent
Date: 2005-02-14 15:48
I, too, recently bought a Woodwind C clarinet. Generally i have been pleasantly surprised by how well it has played, and especailly about how well it is generally in tune. I use a Grabner AW mouthpiece on it, and i up to high C it is surprisingly good. I find that the high C is ever so slightly flat. Then again, so is the throat F, so i need to go in and modify that tone hole a little. The altissimo tends to be a little flatter than i am used to, but then on my Bb and A i don't generally use the Rt pinky Eb key either. Using that on this C clarinet generally brings those notes (D,Eb,E and F) into reasonable intonation.
It's a student instrument, and of course i knew that going into it, but as infrequently as i have call for a C clarinet it seemed a reasonable way to go. Certainly if i land a job with the opera i'll get something nicer...which means not in this lifetime, probably.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-02-15 04:37
Interesting that someone had a problem with a Bb mpc on a Buffet E-11 C clarinet. I have an E-11 and use my regular Bb mouthpiece on it and have no problems at all.
I tried the RC C clarinets as well as Patricola and other brands. At $4000 for the RC I couldn't afford it. Then I tried an E-11 and to my amazement, they all played considerably better than the RC, and at $1200 I couldn't argue it at all. I bought the E-11 and have had no regrets at all.
Nice to see some talk about C clarinets, I think it's a terrific instrument and one that I wish were used more. Certain contemporary composers are writing for it nowadays, including Michael Finnissy and Richard Barrett, so I'm happy to have some new music to play on my new acquistion.
--Michael
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Author: kfeder@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-02-16 20:10
I went ahead and ordered a C from wwbw (it's not available till early april) and asked for them to check it out in their shop before they ship.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2005-02-16 23:03
Good luck with your WWBW purchase. I did not have such luck with them when I bought my contrabass. I specifically and repeatedly asked them to shop check and set up the instrument before shipping it to me, yet the horn arrived needing lots of repair/adjustment work. We are not talking about minor adjustmens, but major works.
Just be prepared for surprises/shocks, and know that promises don’t carry much weight these days. Also don’t get sentimentally attached to the instrument in case you need to return it.
Willy
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Author: kfeder@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-02-17 01:00
Well, I'll just hope for the best. You would think that sending out well adjusted instruments in the first place would be good public relations and cheaper for them in the long run. I did return a Bb clarinet to them last year which needed a number of minor adjustments and the new horn they sent was well adjusted, but of course there is some hassle factor in sending something back and waiting for a replacement.
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2005-02-17 11:27
I recently purchased a Patricola C clarinet in grenadilla from Lisa Argiris at IMS. It arrived having been set up meticulously, and plays incredibly well for an instrument in its price range. I used it in a "waltz night" gala with a pops orchestra last weekend and got several compliments on its sound.
Thumbs up for both IMS and Patricola on this one.
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2005-02-17 12:49
Try finding a C clarinet in my neck of the woods - you can't. It would take many hours of driving to go anyplace that might have just one, and frankly I don't have that kind of time.
If you find someone you can implicitly trust to play test some horns and pick one out for you, then that service is worth a lot. I found that Ms. Argiris picked out a fine instrument. She'll be getting my business again if I need another clarinet.
Also, with the mail-order houses you can try a bunch and send back what you don't like, multiple times if necessary. It's low-risk, and cheaper than driving long distances when you consider not only gas prices but also what your own time is worth.
When all that is taken into consideration I don't really think it's weird at all. It's all a matter of priorities and personal preferences.
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There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary math, and those who don't.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2005-02-17 16:44
Anybody interested in swaping a good C clairnet for an equally good Conn(stencil) C Melody Sax, please respond off line, Bob A
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