 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Low_Reed
Date: 2005-02-10 23:43
The deep, dark, delicious sound of a bass clarinet makes me swoon with musical pleasure! I've got a Yamaha YCL-221 student model BC to low Eb, a sweet-sounding instrument that treats me well...
But I'm periodically tempted to explore even lower reaches, given my affinity for the chalumeau register. So the extended-to-low-C bass clarinet has intrigued me (as have contra-altos and contra-basses, but that's another story!). But those low C jobs are expensive, and I've already got a great horn at a great price, so why sweat just three lousy half-tones?
Well, how about an aftermarket extension? Walter Grabner, who makes terrific mouthpieces (http://www.clarinetxpress.com/bass.html), used to make low C extensions, but gave it up because they took so long to build (and had to be custom-made for each BC). Stephen Fox has a spot for them on his web site, which now says he's too busy to make them (http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Bass_Cl_Ext.html).
Some Internet surfing led me today to the site of Pete Worrell, who's got some photos of a couple of extensions he built (http://www.btinternet.com/~peteworrell/gallery/booseybasscltextension.htm). Does anyone have experience with his work, or know about his prices?
Have any of you had experience with an aftermarket extension? Do you know of any other folks who make them?
(Or you could talk me into a good used Leblanc Paris 350 or 352 Eb contra-alto...)
Or, I could step away from this seductive keyboard, screen, and portal to the world, and spend more time exploring the BC that's right here in the room with me!
Any thoughts?
-- Bruce
**Music is the river of the world!**
-- inspired by Tom Waits and a world full of music makers
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-02-11 09:21
I play a low C bass, but, my two all time favorite bass clarinetists play low Eb basses, and it didn't seem to hurt them.
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Author: graham
Date: 2005-02-11 11:18
The problem is that they almost definitely have to be made to fit the particular bass you have, and the maker will want to consult you on key positionings. That means you need to be close to him/her. I know someone in London UK, but that won't be any use to a US citizen.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-02-11 13:30
Currently, on the Yahoo bass-clarinet site, we have had a few EM posts re: extensions, worthwhile reading. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-02-11 13:44
I too have a low C bass clarinet (Selmer Model 33, dating back to the late 1960's in manufacture date), and I enjoy playing it, no question. But, while I may use the extension notes (Eb, D, Db, C...you do know that the Eb is an extension note as well, don't you?) once in a blue moon for written parts, very often the only time that I drift below low E is when I'm transposing something else (like those damn'd A bass clarinet parts). And, all modern horns already have the ability to do that particular transposition, with the Eb extension.
In short, it's a nice thing to have those extra three semitones, as unfacile as they are for normal chromatic play. (There are two very simple modifications to the Selmer 33 keywork that can be made to make the various slides much more facile; owners would need to have some cutting and soldering done on their keywork, though...) But, wanting to play those three extra extension note is not a very good argument for lusting after a more expensive instrument or an even more inconvenient "extension".
"Student" versions of the bass clarinet available before last year didn't give you any choice; you got the Eb and that was it. I am given to understand that the horn produced under Tom Ridenour's influence has the extended range, but getting that will still set you back a grand or so. A new horn perhaps, but a lot of money for very little in return (since you already have a bass clarinet to begin with).
As much as the ability to properly fill out a harmonic line on my Model 33 means to me, I readily admit that I'd not go the $1,000 or so that it would take to obtain it if I didn't already have it.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-02-11 14:19
I recently finished a homemade removable low-C extension for my Kohlert bass clarinet. It was a LOT of work, but it does the job. I'm guessing that if anyone wanted to market such an extension, it might cost around $500 to build the extension proper and kit up the additional keywork (to go on the body of the instrument), plus an additional $150 or so (US dollars) labor for a technician to install the extra mechanism.
I don't know whether there's enough market out there to justify the costs of such a product.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-02-11 18:26
Same thing for the low A bell for bassoons. I know that they can be obtained, but I've never seen a "commercial" route for obtaining one. It's a custom item for those poor guys and gals who spend a lot of time with Dick Wagner's treacle, and I doubt that few others would bear the freight for the dubious privilege of playing a low concert A.
(Beside that, use of the "pavillion de rechange" (as it is supposedly known) makes the bassoon section look like a set of roof vents for a toilet section.)
Those of us who have spent a good number of years on the bass clarinet know that you seldom see any written music for the notes below E (and even less if you confine your playing to romantic period music, save for the occasional low Eb (sounding the bass clarinet in A low E)). There are a few Russian compositions that go into the range, and I recall using the low C once in a "new" piece of art music (sometime back in the early 1980's). Other than that (and for doubling bassoon and baritone sax lines), nada.
(Once, I was specifically directed to play a note on the extended series by Lukas Foss.)
(This was during a university orchestra's performance of a piece of his under his direction, and the music was (to put it mildly) bizarre. It consisted of a two page series of whole note chords that were "composed" by the conductor from the podium, this being done by cueing the specific sections or instrumentalists with the stick.)
(Then, after five minutes or so of polycacophony, there was a cadenza that was written out at concert pitch for everyone (i.e., every instrument, regardless of pitch, was instructed to play the same notes), ending on a properly scored chord. The idea was that you ripped through the cadenza at your own pace, ending up on the quavering final tone whenever you got there.)
(At The Maestro's express direction, I played a low C# for one note about half way down the first page. I don't know what special contribution my efforts were supposed to make, but, by God, I nailed that sucker but good following the slightly too dramatic gesture by the conductor. I was rewarded with a smile from the podium, for what that's worth...)
Like a bassett clarinet, an extended range bass clarinet is a good thing to have (as long the act of having it fits within your budget). But, essential? Nope. The best bass that I've ever played was an old "standard" bass clarinet from Buffet, range to low E, and "Albert system" to boot. Better tone for the most part, more facile than the extended horns I've known over the years, and a lot lighter on the thumb (in case you have to play "off your hand" for any significant amount of time).
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-02-11 20:30
Terry, you're generally correct --- but when you need the extra low notes, you REALLY need them. Some years back I was subbing in a local professional orchestra (during my one year in the AFM) and we were doing both the Sacre du Printemps and Prokofiev's Romeo & Juliet complete ballet --- there were many exposed and important 'extended' notes and my bass clarinet only went to low-Eb ---- it was very embarrassing and I was not hired again by that group. Also, I'm finding that more and more of the modern concert band literature calls for the low notes, although they can be gotten around ALMOST all the time. Some will also say that modern solo literature for bass clarinet requires the extended-range horn, and that's probably true, but from what I've heard of that literature most if it isn't worth hearing (or playing) anyway....  The bottom line is, if one is serious about playing classical bass clarinet nowadays, the extended range is probably a requirement, despite all the extra cost and drawbacks. This is why I made my homemade extension easily removable --- I can leave it in its bag 99% of the time, and only put it on for those relatively rare occasions when the extra notes are called for. There's no doubt my bass clarinet plays, feels, and sounds better without the extension (and I don't need to sit on top of cushions).
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-02-11 21:18
"There's no doubt my bass clarinet plays, feels, and sounds better without the extension (and I don't need to sit on top of cushions)."
I have it on the best of authority from the Big Guy himself that, if God had meant for you to play the bass clarinet, He would have made you taller to avoid the cushion problem all together...
(Thus sayeth the 6' 3" bass clarinet player...)
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-02-11 21:30
There's never been any doubt that I WAS NOT meant to play the bass clarinet (at 5' 8") --- but as the Chapter Chairman, "Champions of Lost Causes" (East Coast USA Region), I've always felt compelled to tilt at windmills, and attempt tasks far beyond my capabilities..........thus I play bass clarinet, despite being vertically configured for smaller instruments such as the Tarogato and Ab Sopranino Clarinet.
So, being resigned myself to having to sit on cushions whenever my low-C extension is attached, and whereas I don't like sitting on cushions, I therefore minimize my use of the extension. Problem solved.
By the way, unlike you tall guys, I don't have to order MY car without a sunroof to avoid hitting my head ---- so you see, every cloud has a silver-plated lining.....
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-02-11 23:51
If you're going to purchase a bass clarinet, why not purchase a Low C bass first? Most of the contemporary music being written nowadays requires the low C and there is PLENTY of orchestral literature that does as well. For starters, there's the big solo from Shostakovich #7 that shows up on many audition lists.
So why not just get a low C first and then get the low Eb if you want it later?
Just a thought,
Michael
P.S. I own a Selmer 37 Low C bass.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-02-12 19:22
Hi,
I got the opportunity to see DS's low C extension last evening and it is really cool (although I did comment that "this may border on some form of madness"). The coolest part though was how DS carried it around in a nice green gym bag!!!
HRL
PS I hope that DS will post a few photos of his extension. It is pretty amazing what an aeronautical engineer can accomplish when left alone for long periods of time. It is almost rocket science!
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Author: graham
Date: 2005-02-14 08:17
I go along with DS here. You may go months on end never needing lower than E flat, or playing a piece with one or two Cs in it which are in tutti passages and nobody knows you have put it up an octave, but then you hit on the rep (particularly Shos) where that is not possible. If you turn up with an instrument that does not play all the notes that seems to say something about you, because Shos is mainstream stuff. It says that you are a second rank player (or worse). You won't have the time to explain how little these notes are used, or that there was this debate on a bulletin board. The damage will have been done.
Anyone hoping to play contemporary music occasionally is even more in need of the extended instrument.
It could be regarded as a curse that this happened to the bass clarinet, when there is so little utility in the lower notes and they are so rarely needed. It leaves so many good instruments on the shelf. But that is the way it has turned out.
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Author: smummert
Date: 2019-09-19 19:52
Hey David,
Did you every share the pictures of your extension? Would that be possible? I'm of the mind to do that as well.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2019-09-20 06:37
My extension (what, 15 years old now?) is too ugly to be seen in public. But it works fine for me when I need it (which is rarely). I started building a nicer one a few years ago, but haven't bothered to finish it because it's a lot of work for something I don't need.
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