 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-02-03 21:36
This comes to mind all of a sudden this morning, as I read some of the members discussing on 'Mozartean-ness'.
Wasn't Mozart more of nonchalant person-genius, while Salieri was hard working, disciplined, self-made musician?
[edit: Erased as the following part didn't really contribute to discussion but mockery]
Lucy Lee Jang
Post Edited (2005-02-04 23:18)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-02-03 21:43
Lucy -
Mozart worked harder than anybody. He only made it **seem** easy.
In his movies, you see Gene Kelly do things that are almost impossible, and you think, "Gee, that's almost impossible."
Fred Astaire does things that **are** impossible, and you think, "I could do that."
Ken Shaw
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-02-03 22:00
Really?? Probably I'm too much influenced by 'Amadeus'...
Thanks for the examples .
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-03 22:04
claclaws wrote:
> Really?? Probably I'm too much influenced by 'Amadeus'...
"Amadeus" was the equivalent of Mozart meets Hollywood. Hollywood wins.
Pick up a good biography of Mozart and be pleasantly surprised by the facts...GBK
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2005-02-03 22:09
It's the same difference between gymnastics and acrobatics...
Anyone who has attempted to put music to paper, and get same published knows about the discipline required.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2005-02-03 23:20
You know, there are people whose talents are simply beyond rational explanation. Mozart was one of those. Salieri was not.
Only once in my life have I met someone who falls into the "inexplicable talent" category. She was (is) an organist. I first heard her when she was 14 years old, already winning every competition she entered. We had just installed a new (old) organ in the church where I was music director, and she had come to visit on the off-chance that we would let her play it.
It was 9:00 p.m., after Lenten services and rehearsals, and she sat down at that organ and ripped off (from memory) Bach and Widor and a French composer whose name escapes me right now, long denim skirt and Birkenstocks notwithstanding. It was the first time that I knew that I was truly in the presence of greatness.
Lucinda and I had a wonderful professional relationship over the next couple of years. She is at Eastman now, I think. My life was totally enriched by her presence, and I hope to God she is doing well.
Susan
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Author: Bill
Date: 2005-02-04 00:43
Loved the observation about Kelly and Astaire. Made my night.
Bill.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2005-02-04 02:47
Bill, that may have made your night, but here is a quote that made my day. I was spending a little time in the theology of Karl Barth and found this quote:
"Whether the angels play only Bach praising God, I am not quite sure. I am sure, however, that en famille they play Mozart.
Karl Barth"
And Amen to that!
Bob A
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-02-04 11:21
You need to balance your Yang with your Jang
Bob Draznik
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-04 13:02
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Salieri was one of Beethoven's composition teachers.
- and Beethoven dedicated the 3 violin sonatas of 1798 to him...GBK
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-02-04 14:23
In heaven the composers sit at God's feet. Mozart sits in God's lap.
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-02-04 16:20
But only if he can stop squirming enough to stay there.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-02-05 06:27
Lucy,
Read Roger Ebert's review of Amadeus -- he includes some insight into the movie's depiction of how easily composing came to Mozart vs. Salieri's difficulty. You may find this interesting (though it only relates to the movie, not historical fact):
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20020414/REVIEWS08/204140301/1023
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-02-05 07:41
Mozart's dictation of the Requiem was to Sussmayr, not Salieri ...GBK
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-02-06 02:29
I think that the original issue is a Jekyll/Hyde thing in each of us. We all seem to have facets of our talents that come to us easily, and facets which we work to the point of frustration.
When I look at the kinds of things that come 'easily' to me, it's simply of matter of not having practiced them specifically. But they are the result of considerable practice on related items.
How many of us practice patterns for jazz improvisation, but don't actually use them? But we use the key and interval familiarity that they produce.
When you look at guys like Bach and Mozart, I wonder if they seemingly become supermen simply because their technical skills are so strong that they are able to write down and/or execute a large part of the piece because they are unencumbered by careful penmanship or too much double-checking. With a Mozart or a Charlie Parker it seems like so much of the miracle is getting the idea out there intact while it's still fresh.
I also wonder how much talent is lost to the world everyday as young musicians make meteoric progress using their basic skills, but then get impatient and frustrated with skill which are more difficult and which have narrower applications.
Allen Cole
Post Edited (2005-02-06 02:31)
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