 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-01 11:59
Hello all:
I'm checking out a new instrument. The grain of the wood in the upper joint is not straight. It's actually a really aesthetically beautiful instrument, and the texture of the wood in this area gives a nice perspective. Specifically, it's got a nice "wave" in the grain near the top of the upper joint, in the area of the A/Ab keys down to the middle finger chimney. The instrument seems to play rather nicely but when I look into the bore I can see the grain curvature there as well, and because of this the bore isn't as smooth as it is on my Bb (same model clarinet).
Should I be concerned that the grain is not straight in this area?
Is this an area of high stress or low strength due to the differences in the grain orientation?
Will the grain tend to open up in the bore of the instrument over time?
Thanks,
Matt
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-02-01 15:30
Don't sweat it --- it's purely cosmetic.
There are more important things to worry about (wars, natural disasters, etc.)
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Author: Dano
Date: 2005-02-01 15:40
Great question, Matt. I have a clarinet that has the same type of grain in about the same place you describe. I have worried about it for 2 or 3 years. I keep expecting it to open up. I have been told that it does make for a weak spot and to keep my eye on it. I suppose that seeking a clarinet with "tight"grain would mean we should avoid clarinets with knots in the upper joints?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-02-01 16:36
What is the concern and worry worth to you?
Bob Draznik
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-01 16:43
David:
I agree that there are more important things to think about, and amazingly enough I do. However since this is a clarinet BB I thought I'd restrict my questions to clarinet issues and not venture off into the realm of politics or world policy.
I can affect my clarinetting(!) future by purchasing an instrument that doesn't already have a defect. My suspicions are that -as Dano reflected - it's a concern but that it's probably not an issue. My question was a request for information from others with the same experience with their instruments, or from people with an understanding of clarinet and/or wood structures/stresses & how this particular characteristic would affect the long term durability & playing characteristics of this instrument.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-02-01 16:49
Matt,
I was kidding. Sorry, should have put a smiley at the bottom of my post.....
All seriousness aside, I strongly suspect that some waviness in the grain of a wood clarinet is an extremely minor concern. I've got eighty-year-old clarinets with similar variations in grain and no cracks anywhere.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-01 19:32
David:
Thanks for the update. I just figured you were having a rough day!! My day's been of that type so I just assumed the worst.
I'm glad to hear this. This clarinet seems really quite nice, feels just like my other clarinet, and has a nice sound. My concerns are slowly being alleviated.
Thanks,
Matt
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2005-02-01 19:50
Matt....
Listen to Spiegethal....he knows "what's up". AND...quit examining your clarinet so much. Play it and learn. If it sounds right, then it IS. I don't know why clarinetists (only one "t", dude) are so retentive. Comparing one horn to abn other, even of the same make will just make you crazy. PLAY IT.....AND ENJOY........
JG the clarinator
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Author: Dano
Date: 2005-02-01 21:20
John, "quit examining your clarinet so much" sounds like "famous last words". When someone comes here and says that they found a crack on their clarinet I read, "you should of examined your clarinet more often". I think that examining your clarinet IS learning and enjoying it.
Also, with all due respect, I would also love to know why Spiegenthal knows "what's up". There seem to be alot of experts but I can't really figure out what makes these people experts except that other people claim they know "what's up". Does he know what's up from your personal experience or just because most of his posts sound like he knows? I would just like to know if an expert here is an expert or as much of an expert that he or she thinks they are. Also, what does clarinetists (only one "t") mean?. Am I being difficult today? Just one of those bad days Matt was talking about.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-02-01 21:49
Dano,
I don't know "what's up" better than anyone else here --- I just happen to have some experience over the last 10 or so years renovating (and playing) a significant number of vintage clarinets of many brands, as well as repairing or overhauling a moderate number of better-known/more modern clarinets -- so I've seen more grenadilla grain go past me than the majority of players have, and consequently I feel justified in making some observations about grains and cracks. That's all, no more and no less. I'm no expert, just an experienced amateur tinkerer.
I respect your right to question the expertise of anyone posting on this forum --- it's a good thing to do from time to time. The key, of course, is to do it without offending, and I'll admit to having failed to achieve that on occasion myself!
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-02-02 01:05
Seems to me we had a conversation about "who is an expert and should we listen to everyone on every topic" about a month ago. There was a thread about people's CVs.
Sue
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Author: Dano
Date: 2005-02-02 05:40
David,
I certainly did not want to offend anyone and I believe that most people here might know more than I do about clarinets and all kinds of other subjects. I have only played for about 40 years and have never been driven to overhaul or do any significant repairs. Just play and try to play better. I really did not know how to ask "what makes you know more than I do about clarinets" without the aid of facial expressions and vocal intonations to back up the fact that I don't mean to be rude. Seeing that you have repaired and overhauled a significant number of clarinets puts you alot closer to"expert" than I am and I will take what you have to say about wood grain or other subjects alot more seriously. Thanks for responding.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-02 13:15
John:
I know that Dave knows "what's up"!
So, tell me - what's the purpose of this BB? My answer is that it's to learn from others & offer knowledge when it's appropriate. I asked a question, a legitimate question in my opinion. Best of all, it wasn't "what's the best ligature?" or "What's the best mouthpiece?"
My question to you is "did your response bring any value at all to this discussion?" My opinion is NO, what's yours?
I disagree with your statement about comparing clarinets. You've apparently never done it or you would already know that each one has it's own characteristics.
So, dude, how do you spell clarinetting? This happens to be the word used above, not clarinetist, and you may notice the "(!)" meant to bring attention to the use of a word that may not even be a word!
And by the way, what exactly does "abn other" mean? I've never seen "abn" used anywhere before and it's not in my dictionary. Oh, it must be like clarinetting!!
MOO,
Matt
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-02-02 13:27
Dear boys & girls,
Sometimes I slip and let a post through where someone points out a spelling error.
We have a rule that people should never correct each other's spelling.
If you want to know why that rule exists please go & re-read this thread.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-02-02 16:00
Mark:
That was supposed to be a funny, knowing that speling corrections are a no-no.
My apologies. I really just want information about the issue asked about.
Matt
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-02-02 21:27
Back on topic. IMHO There is no way of telling which piece of wood will crack and one that will not. You are probably safer with straight grained wood but the wavy wood may actually be stronger. Holes add another dimension to the stresses which are in wood and the best simulation models I've seen still do not account for all of the variables in radial stress.
I have an intuitive feeling about the relative strength of a piece of wood from its grain pattern which came from practical experience. We bought an old summer home on Narragansett Bay in RI and the first month's heating bill was >$400.00 in 1978. I decided that I could not afford to heat the house conventionally and to utilize the 3 fireplaces. I installed efficient wood burning stoves in each and heated the house nicely with about 8 cords of wood per year. The cheapest way to get hardwood firewood is in log lengths so each summer I got a bunch of logs delivered and went to work with chain saw, axe, sledge hammer, wedges, etc.. After cutting and splitting eight cords of oak, maple, walnut etc. for 6 years you can look at wood grain and know where the weak and strong areas lie. The conventional wisdom was to have you wood spit and stacked by July 4 in order for proper seasoning for the heating season. Eight cords of split and stacked firewood is an awesome sight and one which I will never repeat again. Now in Georgia in an energy efficient house I only use gas logs.
L. Omar Henderson
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