 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-26 02:48
My newly aquired Selmer 10G cracked tonight. It's from 1976, has cracked twice already (and was repaired before I bought it), and this is it's third. Down the back of the upper joint, from the tenon (NOT the tenon, but right up to the edge), through the registern key and slightly below.
I've emailed John Butler (who I was trying to save up some money for to get it overhauled anyway) to see what his estimate would be to fix the crack as well (which means I'm gonna have to save up MORE money and sell off some more stuff to pay for it, not to mention scrimp and save pennies).
What a bummer.
Lastly, anyone have any idea on how to keep the clarinet suriviving until I've earned enough to send it (whatever that may be after I get a response)? Of course I won't play it, and will be using my Amati or Buffet until I can get that one back in action, but anything I should do? It could be a few weeks depending on the amount it's going to cost. Thanks.
Alexi
PS - Good thing this site is censored Mark, cause BOY OH BOY would I have some choice words to use . . . ! But I'll keep it clean.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarinetmajr
Date: 2005-01-26 03:05
I would just suggest that, since it may be winter where you are, to be extra sure to acclimate your instruments when you come in from the cold (ie warming them up first before playing). You are probably already doing this though... Since your instrument has a history of cracking in the upper joint, have you considered just replacing that joint? I know what it feels like to be scrimping pennies... all part of the college experience I guess. Maybe you could eventually sell it to one of your students (if you teach) who are looking to upgrade from a plastic instrument and then put that money towards a new clarinet.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2005-01-26 04:04
How deep is the crack, Alexi?
FWIW, I played on a borrowed pro Selmer (don't know what series, but it was a good one) for a year in early H.S. It also had a crack in exactly the place that you describe. But the crack didn't seem to affect its playability at all.
I played it for a year, and then had to give it back because we were moving and the owner didn't want to sell it. But it just kept on ticking -- it was the best instrument I ever played, until I got my Buffet many years later.
Good luck with your repairs.
Susan
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Author: Dano
Date: 2005-01-26 05:20
What a bummer. I think I know exactly what choice words you would use if you could! I have heard that if you tape the crack very tight and not play the clarinet at all, you can prevent it from cracking further until you have it repaired. Never had a clarinet crack on me so it is just something someone told me but I can't see how it would harm your instrument. Good luck.
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-01-26 05:57
Alexi -
I play on 10G clarinets as well, and have had several sets. Everyone has cracked atleast once. A clarinet is like a tool, and when it breaks you have to get it fixed.
Estimate the cost by the number of pins you think it would need to close the crack, and multiply by about $15-$25 and u may have a decent estimate depending on your location.
I too have played with instruments when they were cracked. A few times i was sitting in the pit, and noticed a crack midway in a performance, i was probably extremely bored during some recit. or something. Just make sure you really warm the instrument up with your hands, arm pits etc before you play on it.
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-01-26 11:23
Alexi,
I exactly know the words that you would like to use right now..... (send me a email to get them ) My new clarinet cracked just two months ago and I have to say that's not a easy choice what to do with it...I've decided to let them replace the upper joint...but that was a case of warranty off course!
Just store it some where with minimal climate changes and don't play it... the crack will probably not get bigger that way....
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-26 13:16
I just received an email from John Butler and Rodrubber was RIGHT on the money with the estimate (not gonna quote his estimate since his prices can change, but this thread's numbers won't . . . so I don't want to falsely advertise a wrong price).
It's definitely reassuring to know that others have gone through this (and more importantly, SURVIVED). I'll save up for a ridiculous amount of pins (I figure six) and that way I'll definitely make sure I have enough.
So as of today, once I get my mouthpiece, barrel and lig out of the case, it'll be spending its days in my closet, untouched, until I can send it out to get fixed.
Thanks for the advice on how to keep it from further cracking. Looks like I'm back to playing my backup clarinet for a while. Also, this definitely gives me a good idea of why it's important to keep a backup clarinet!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-26 15:24
Sigh ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
Open up the case to my backup clarinet, take a look, and find a crack in the same spot (register key) as the first.
Looks like I'm down to my third one (which has a broken thumb rest, although that is the least expensive and easiest of the various issues I'm having now to repair).
When it rains, it pours. Over here in my household apparently it's [expletive deleted] typhoon season.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-01-26 15:54
Alexi, I am so #^%$# sorry to hear your story!
It might make you feel better to have a plan for getting the horns repaired if you don't already. Giving up a latte a week or a pizza a month is $15 right there, for example. Or, if your pay is direct deposited you could put a small amount from each paycheck aside before you see it and earmark that for repairs.
I'm sure you've thought of this, but what is the space like where you keep your clarinets? Is there any chill from the outside or a heating vent or such nearby?
good luck
clarinetwife, also a 10G player who put aside pennies for several years to fund two adoptions.
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Author: Keith Ferguson
Date: 2005-01-26 16:05
Alexi, are you monitoring the humidity in your cases? I live in a chilly climate and the indoor relative humidity during winter can drop surprisingly low. I bought a couple of inexpensive hygrometers and made case humidifiers out of 35mm film canisters stuffed with sponge. That approach is good enough to keep the RH at about 50%.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-26 16:14
Clarinetwife,
Yup. Have a plan. Fix the easier one first (the one with just the crack), and play on that until I save enough to fix the other and get it overhauled. Just a bummer that all my clarinets collaborated together and planned it PERFECTLY to screw me over (beginning of semester, I was JUST about to start taking lessons for the first time in my life, but I'm putting that aside figuring that's fifty dollars a week I can save and get things running again - I waited 14 clarinet playing years before starting lessons, I can wait a few more weeks I'm sure).
Ah well. Life goes on.
Keith,
haven't been monitoring the humidity. I never have before. But I'm starting to think seriously about doing so now. I'll look up some stuff on how to monitor it on the BBoard.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-01-26 19:45
Dear Sfalexi
Never play on a cracked clarinet no matter what!!!
Get your clarinet pinned and go back to life as normal
The expansion and contraction of warm and cold air through the bore can deepen and even widen a cracked clarinet. A good thing to use in times of dry and cold weather is a dampit and even a humidifier in the room you store your instrument....as to whether this will prevent a crack is not entirely gauranteed...
As to clarinet care I have never used a dampit...but make sure to allow an instrument to warm up with the room gradually if you have had your clarinet outside in a car for a long time...(1hr or more in cold weather)
Personally....... I also recommend keeping the sockets dried out after practicing...! Alot of players never dry the tenon sockets and this keeps repairmen happy as long as clarinets crack. As to changing your monitoring of weather any change 45 degrees fahrenheit suddenly over a short period of time can endanger the wood...also sudden changes from dry/cold to warm/damp environments over a short period can be a cause of concern.
David Dow
Post Edited (2005-01-26 19:56)
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2005-01-26 19:56
All this talk of cracking has made me nervous. Does anyone know if an extra coating of "The Doctors Products" bore oil will help prevent cracks.
jmsa
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Author: rhagen2
Date: 2005-01-26 20:35
Along with many others, my clarinet recently cracked, though in the bell (so it's a little easier to handle I think...). However, I realized (and I think someone else may have said this) that the weather and humidity are a big factor right now. I thought about buying all sorts of humidifiers but they can get expensive, especially if you're a college student like me, or simply don't have the extra cash right now (like in saving up to have cracks repaired...). So I took a decent sized sponge, soaked it in water and slightly wrung it out, and stuck it in a ziploc bag inside my case. I left the bag open enough for the humidity to escape but not get everything all wet. I have 2 of these in my single case and 4 in my double case... I'm not taking any more chances... just a suggestion!! Good luck!!!
Much Love,
Rachel
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
-Red Auerbach
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-01-26 20:45
rhagen2 said:
> So I took a decent sized sponge, soaked it in water
> and slightly wrung it out, and stuck it in a ziploc bag
> inside my case. I left the bag open enough for the
> humidity to escape but not get everything all wet.
> I have 2 of these in my single case and 4 in my double case...
Using a Humistat®, sponges in film canisters, orange peels, etc... to add water vapor to your case and maintain the water balance in your instrument is only half the remedy.
You must have a hygrometer in your case, or you are only GUESSING at the RH within your case, surrounding your instrument.
The RH should be within 45% - 70%. Using a gauge is the most accurate way to monitor the relative humidity...GBK
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-01-27 05:12
Alexi,
like i said, i have had many clarinets pinned. Unfortunately, to me, it seems like as soon as you pin the instrument, its changes it...sometimes makes it better but definately changes something about the resistance.
My former teacher feels that pinning the instrument changes it too much, so upon finding a large crack in the brand new yamaha clarinets he was sent from yamaha, he used crazy glue on the crack and played on it like that for about 6 months.
The repairman we all take our stuff to here in DC found this a rather poor solution. Just thought id share
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-01-27 08:44
At risk of somebody eating my head off, as happened last time I dared to mention this:
I resisted using superglue for many years, because I thought that the superglue would not stick to the (perhpas oily) timber, and being a very rigid material when set, would not allow for further expansion and contraction of the adjacent timber. I expected the split to continue opening and closing around the 'wedge' of glue inside the split.
However so many technicians have found this very successful that I have relented for smaller splits.
In at least three years of sometimes using this approach, I have not to my knowledge had one fail. It seems that the superglue bonds with the (perhaps oily) timber far more successfully than I ever expected, and perhaps like many polymers, it expands (to match the timber's expansion?) as it is exposed to moisture.
At least the method is not invasive like pins, and pins cannot be safely used in some locations.
But as with all processes, there are plenty of ways of making a really bad job of using superglue.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-01-27 16:14
D.Dow makes an extremely significant point:
"Personally....... I also recommend keeping the sockets dried out after practicing...! "
I doubt that many beginners are taught this very important part of clarinet maintenance. In addition, getting the condensation out of those crevices is not easy and so one must pay attention. Personally I "blow" the joints first and then "scour" them with a cloth. Actually, it's a wonder any clarinet section escapes cracking considering the abuse Nature's wood undergoes in the process of making and playing a clarinet.
Bob Draznik
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-01-27 18:34
The makeup applicator remover pads (cotton) are very good for drying the sockets. I give them to my students - use a different one each week as you shouldn't use the same one for long.
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Author: jmsa
Date: 2005-01-27 18:42
Ferres Tools makes a great crack repair kit utilizing grenadilla powder and a special super glue called "Hot Glue." After proper application, carefully following their directions, using a swiss jewelry file, the crack will be virtually undetectable.
jmsa
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2005-01-27 22:39
Hot Glue is no better than any other super glue. It's marketing. "Hot Glue" is a thin super glue that sets fairly quickly. You can get the same at any hobby store. Read the label and you can find those that set 1 second + depending on the viscosity.
It does take practice "blending in" any filled crack.
jbutler
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-01-28 00:42
Alexi.....I took a chance and fixed a crack in my Buffet barrel with "Gorilla glue", the strongest glue on the planet ,so it states. It hasnt separated in 2 years. But Its a lighter color than the grenadilla wood. Im not sure what they have on the market to blend in the color or of other types of more suitable glues. I am still a bit skeptical about pinning and only as a last resort. I am leaning towards glueing. One tech charges 40 to 50 dollars a pin with no gaurantee that other cracks will not later appear. Glueing would be taking a chance but it could always be pinned if the glue failed.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-28 05:28
Avumba,
Are you positive that if the glue fails it can still be pinned?
Any other techs feel this way too? Just prefer to have a few yesses before I would think about trying something like this.
As I said, the clarinet still played perfectly (I didn't notice it was cracked until I was just looking at it admiring my new clarinet and noticed it), so if glue WOULD work, and COULD be fixed should it not work, I'd be tempted to go that route.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-01-28 14:44
Alexi,
Im not sure and could be completely wrong if a failed glued clarinet could be pinned and I also would be interested in other opinions. I personally think that it could be accomplished in most if not all cases with some difficulty but that would probably depend on the length, depth and location of the crack, type of failiar, etc. Maybe a complete description of the individual crack would help to determine the best approch. I can only speak of my one and only glueing experience but I would think that there are enough good glues on the market so you wouldnt have to pin. Pinning is very expensive and never a guarantee. Maybe we could get some professional opinions on this subject. Both clarinets cracking around the same time and a bent key on the other is quite a dilemma. Was it the Buffet or the Amati that cracked? Good Luck and keep us posted........Avumba
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-28 14:52
Avumba,
It is a very slight crack in the amati, and a much more dramatic crack in the Selmer. The buffet had a broken thumbrest (which I just had fixed for ten dollars . . . not a big deal). Also, interestingly enough, a previous crack on the selmer opened up slightly (one that was pinned previously) which leads me to believe it was either a poor pinning job, or that something went DRAMATICALLY wrong causing a large amount of stress to crack that much.
As to fixing a failed glue job, my logic would lead me down the same path as yours, that it COULD be fixed. Since basically it would just be another crack (except with slight amount of glue rather than grenedilla on either side of the crack). At the very least, I'd think it could be reglued.
I'm debating giving it a shot on my own with the glue since this seems rather safe, rather easy, and with the assumption that it could be fixed should something go wrong.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-28 23:23
For anyone still keeping up, the light bulb in my head went off and I consulted "The Clarinetist's Notebook - Vol I" (which was written by an apprentice of Moennig and described his techniques).
He, interestingly enough, apparently emplyed BOTH pins AND a "glue" type technique, but on different occasions. His primary method for fixing a crack was to pin it closed. However, if a crack opened up on an area that was ALREADY pinned (due to a poor pinning job), he would paint the area in clear nailpolish and let that set (which would be a glue-type filler for the crack). He even employed it where the crack went from the outside through the inside (he describes plugging the holes with cork and sucking in to see if the nailpolish was sucked through - and if it was in certain spots, to cover it up with MORE nailpolish until it no longer was).
Interesting that one of the more well-known and well-revered clarinet technicians of his time would employ BOTH methods as opposed to supporting one or the other.
Just an interesting aside that deals with the situation here.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-01-29 01:49
I can see no problem with pinning a previously-glued split.
When the previous glue has had to be removed, I have found a tiny circular saw very quick and satisfactory (in a dental micromotor handpiece). A typical 'dental' saw would be say 6-20 mm diameter and 0.2 to 0.3 mm wide. A dental probe has also been useful. No doubt other technicians have other means.
Sfalexi wrote ".....He, interestingly enough, apparently emplyed BOTH pins AND a "glue" type technique, but on different occasions. "
As far as I am aware it would be most unusal for any technician to pin across a split without also gluing/filling the split. Gluing/filling is for cosmetic reasons, to hopefully bond the sides of the split togther somewhat, and especially if the split goes through a tone hole face, to prevent leaks.
Somebody mentioned nail polish. From my experience I consider that a very poor option now that cyanoacrylate adhesives are available, along with grenadiilla dust as an additional filler as required.
Post Edited (2005-01-29 01:58)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-29 05:06
Quote:
Somebody mentioned nail polish. From my experience I consider that a very poor option now that cyanoacrylate adhesives are available, along with grenadiilla dust as an additional filler as required. FYI, Gordon, that was me that mentioned it (or rather, me reiterrating Mr. Moennig's technique). In which case your statement about there being more cyanoacrylate adhesives available now would certainly be justified (Moennig being the among the best technicians THEN, and not NOW.)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-01-29 22:02
Another older technique for filling splits was to melt in a shellac containing a black pigment. Like nail polish, it is a rigid filler but poor adhesive. Neither are likely to penetrated far into the crack.
I used also to use epoxy, with black pigment mixed into it.
I guess that neither epoxy nor cyanoacrylate were available to Moennig.
Progress!
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