 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-01-16 20:33
I'm touching up a clarinet choir piece and putting in "alternate" passages for where I've written REALLY low notes for bass and contra.
Regarding Bb Bass and Bb Contrabass Clarinets:
I know that some models of both bass and contra go down to written C (and that the fingering below Eb is extra tricky, usually done with the thumb). Do all basses and contras go down *at least* to low Eb, or are there some models (if so, how prevalent?) that only make it to E?
I really should know these things, but I've been on A/Bb/Eb soprano all my life.
Thanks!
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2005-01-16 20:56
no. you can plan on Eb, but not D.
every bass or contra i've seen go at least to a written Eb. I have a Bb Contra Bass that goes to Eb, does NOT go down to a D
-paul
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Contra
Date: 2005-01-16 21:08
All contras (Bb and Eb) and bass clarinets go to low Eb. Only one Eb contra and one Bb contra that I know of can go to low C.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-01-16 21:44
I dont know about contras, but only bass cls older than about 1950 may only go down to low E, my 1940's Conn does, but my ?older? Pedler has the Eb. Moderns are prob all at least Eb's, AFAIK, low D's are by special [extra] extension, unless the player uses a tube in the bell, thereby defeating the Eb. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2005-01-16 23:08
For BBb contrabasses: you can bet that all current manufactured models from Leblanc, Vito, Selmer Paris, and Selmer USA go down to at least low Eb. Two top models from this group can go down to low C (metal Leblanc 340 paperclip, and rosewood Selmer Paris).
Some older models have the D as their lowest notes, for example, old Leblanc paperclip. But nowadays, such models are no longer manufactured.
In even older days, there might have been models with only E as lowest notes. Again, such models are no longer made.
Willy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-01-17 04:00
The "low Eb extension" to the bass clarinet dates from the days of yore when there were still parts being written for bass clarinet in A. Such animals existed prior to World War I (my Bavarian grandfather had a pair of bass clarinets, one in A and one in Bb, both ranging only to low E), but had gradually died out to the extent that there are some folks who thought that they never existed.
(Even in the face of modern catalogs that clearly show Selmer listing an A bass clarinet, there are some who still deny the existence of the beast. An orchestration book published in the last six years or so clearly stated that the author didn't think that it had ever existed!)
With the maintenance and carriage of two bass clarinets being beyond the reach of most, the need for a second horn to play one in a hundred bass clarinet parts seemed pretty silly. The Eb extension allows us bass clarinet folks to play the occasional bass clarinet in A part without having a Yugo's worth of money tied up in an instrument that only gets pulled out of the box once in a decade or so. It also cuts down the weight lifting problem.
Low C horns are a bit more problematic. They cover the bassoon range well, but don't really offer the same tone color as the conical bored monster. Notes below low E are seldom seen in the "classic" and "romantic" literature (except in A bass clarinet parts, of course); I recall only one Russian work in the days of my youth that dropped down to low D. Of course, there's always Lucas Foss…
I'm of two minds about the extended bass clarinet. On one hand, it's quite a bit heavier than the short version. It also costs a lot less. On the other, I like the way an extended horn plays a lot better; that long peg used on the short one whips around too much for my tastes. The extended horn also loses the "wooffy" middle of the staff B and the low E and downwards (the low C is just as "wooffy", however). Also, the extended range horn offers more flexibility when I'm improvising a clarinet bass line in a dance arrangement. Simple straight transposition from a baritone part, like falling off a log.
Oh, and the Totentanz sounds neater down around low E as well…nice long tone warm up tune.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-01-17 05:59
All I can add is the low D, Db and C on the low C bass calrinets are only hard to play in some cases. For example, playing C C# D (chromatically going up) is pretty hard, but playing the same notes in the other direction, D Db C, is not that hard really. also if you are in C major for example, It's not hard to play C D E becasue C is the only note you'll have to play with the thumb.
I don't play any classical music anymore, and I improvise a lot (either original "Jazzy" compositions, or just free improvisation) and I am glad I bought a low C bass (although my two favorite bass clarinet players ever play low Eb instruments and it doesn't seem to hold them back in any way).
To your question, I think you can write a low E to every bass or contra clarinets, usually low Eb, but to write below that you should find out if you can get a low C insturment.
Good luck.
Post Edited (2005-01-17 06:03)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-01-17 15:01
Thanks everyone for the input. I'm writing low Cs for both my contra and bass parts, but for any passages that go lower than Eb I'll be putting in alternate 8va parts.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2005-01-17 15:10
I played a LeBlanc contra in the MU wind ensemble, and it only went down to Eb. It was a straight model, not paperclip.
-------------
"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kal
Date: 2005-01-17 18:08
Some older models have the D as their lowest notes, for example, old Leblanc paperclip. But nowadays, such models are no longer manufactured.
I played one of these in high school. The D sounded like arse. Then again, so did every other note, heh. (I really prefer straight contras, even if they are taller than I am.) Rumor has it there are techs out there who will extend these things to low C.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-01-17 19:03
Re: the lower than Eb notes, my basses are only [E and] Eb's, so what lowers I run into give me pause as to what to do. I've tried [success?] blowing a flat Eb for an occasional D, but our recent playing of Gershwin's "Cuban Overture" had lots of D's [written as both, plus my marking them], but being blessed with the [concert band] presence of a bassoon AND a low A bari sax, I made sure they would play the important ones. When I can afford/justify a low C BC [like the Ridenour?], I'll prob give in to the expensive 3-more-notes. Thots?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Shadow
Date: 2005-01-23 18:44
Our band teacher's college professer wrote a bass clarinet solo the went down to a low B below the low C extension.......although there were seven sharps in the key signature.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-01-23 19:55
And, much of the music that drops down that low is of the "Gee whiz, look what I can do!" category of composition. Beethoven wrote for the contra bassoon, but he used it along the lines of a bassoon that happened to be an octave lower (check out the Ninth Symphony contra part some time; they're not even a snap on the regular bassoon, much less on an old contra), not as a tone color item.
Sure, you can drag contra-bassoons around down at the bottom of their range for occasional "novelty" purposes, but the tone color of all of the low instruments carries with it the baggage that means you are dealing with slow responding tones and acoustic problems with the limited harmonics present in the tone. You could play the Mozart Clarinet Concerto on a well-maintained Leblanc BBb horn, but why?
The limitations of the beasts are the main reason that they're not in wide use. The same forces that have prevented the popularity of an octave piccolo (perish the thought) have relegated the contra horns to the storage closet.
Having said that, I imagine that somewhere, at some obscure music school, there is a degree program in contra-clarinet performance. Gotta love that career path...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2005-01-23 20:13
Unfortunately, unless you're composing for a specific performer and his/her instrument then low E-flat is the only given. I've written several pieces for clarinet ensemble but had the knowledge about the player's instruments before hand and used the lowest C in some cases on their Contra-bass and Contra-alto
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
