 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-17 07:08
Is it a feasable goal to try to get a music degree part-time while pursuing a full-time job? Meaning, are there schools (in NJ area) that will be able to offer me this? Has anyone done it? Does it take FOREVER?
Thanks.
Alexi
(considering pursuing a full-time job and school on the side due to recent changes in life which would be a LOT easier if I had a full-time salary to back me up)
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Sarah
Date: 2005-01-17 12:48
I would assume that state universities can do this. Mine has some non traditional students that are music majors who are part time. They usually end up taking some classes out of order though, but they are slowly getting through the program.
One thing that might be difficult is class scheduling, but that would obviously depend on where you go.
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-01-17 13:14
You can probably find the information you want by visiting the web sites of the universities that you are interested in.
Hans
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-17 13:25
You're right. I was just wondering if anyone has gone this route or known someone who has and whether I'd be at it for ten years, or whether it's even an idea (Sarah has said that it IS doable, so that's good to hear! . . .)
Looks like I need to do some searching and figuring out where even I would want to apply. THEN see what their schedules look like.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Sarah
Date: 2005-01-17 14:44
Well, you really could be at it for 10 years, if you take very few classes each semester. I know at least two people (both music education majors) who take only a couple classes at a time, and even though it is taking longer, they are still able to have a job and family.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-01-17 14:45
Sarah,
You are right on track with your comment on non-traditional students. Unless the music department of even a state university has made a commitment to offering a degree program so that non-traditional or part-time students can complete all (notice the word all) major requirements for a degree in other than the traditional daytime class mode, it will be very difficult for finish a degree in a logical and timely way. Most major ensembles (there will be a large group performance requirement in most schools) will meet during the day.
If someone works evenings or nights and attends during the day, degree completion is OK. If one is majoring in an area that has lots of students (education, liberal arts, etc.) there will be evening sections of pretty much all classes.
Music departments, in comparison to other departments in a university, are usually small. This is why there are not often multiple sections of most major subject classes. If you miss a course that is offered only every second or third semester, you are really playing catchup. Trying to use a course substitution or an independent study approach will fly for only one or two courses. After that, your education really suffers.
HRL
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-17 15:31
That's precisely what I'm worried about Hank. I'm between a rock and hard place here. I'm thinking about transferring and starting/finishing a music degree at Rutgers University in NJ (it'd be Mason Gross college of arts I believe). Rutgers has a VERY large student body and so I shouldn't be in too much trouble as per finding at least the basic core requirements.
. . . .
Now it's a half hour later from writing that top portion and I still can't find any information on Rutgers class schedules for winter of '05. Looks like I'll have to find out another day.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-17 17:27
Alex,
Yes I'm in state and tuition is manageable. Also my company will pay back up to 3000 dollars a year in tuition fees, as well as give up to 2000 dollars a year in school loans which do not need to be repaid if you stay with the company two or more years, I can manage. However I can't work less. Else I would barely be able to pay bills, let alone tuition (once again, it's a pay BACK system . . . you get it if you pass the class)
But getting a degree in music is not a #1 priority. Playing it is. The degree is just learning more and formalizing a study in something that I enjoy. So I'm not worried about a 'long haul'. And as long as I'm making more than enough money to survive, I can bear it!
Thanks for the link. I couldn't find much on my own. I'm checkin' it out as we speak.
I'm also assuming that, if needed, I can take an equivalent course at another college and have it transfer over if they offer a better time to take it (of course this would be at the discretion of whatever college I'm aiming to get a degree from, but that's a road to travel down a little further)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-01-17 17:37
Just be very careful to make extra triple sure that the college you're taking the courses TO will accept them. I've known countless people who've done two, three years of junior college work, of which only a semester or two worth transfers over.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-17 17:51
Already came upon that situation. Except that the college that WOULDN'T accept the transfer credit was a community college. And the college that I was trying to transfer credit FROM is currently ranked #18 in overall academic experience out of 357 colleges in the Princeton Review. (actually ranked #2 out of 357 in the subject that they wouldn't accept) A little backwards if you ask me. (And boy does it 'burn my grits' as they would say back there!)
But yes. I ran into that situation and will be doubly careful (as should ANYONE else who reads this thread.)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-01-17 18:06
I wanna second Alex's warning to make sure the different colleges are seeing eye-to-eye on the credits. The way you might want to look at it, if you can, is to eyeball a college that you may eventually wish to call "the one" and then meet with an advisor/counselor (whatever they call them) and have them research the question for you. Present to them the colleges you are considering taking some of the regular coursework at and see if the credits will transfer. Also be aware, some class credits will not transfer equally so getting three credits for a course at Podunk Community College may only get you two for the same listed course at I'mimportant University. Just don't let this catch you by surprise or you may be living the "Mr. 3000" movie-line for yourself. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
With that said, I would still suggest (with careful consideration) doing as much work as you can at the community college level where the credits will transfer. I had gotten all of my "academics" finished before I went to Shenandoah University in Winchester, Virginia and luckily only had to deal with retaking one class (biology with lab). So, again, get the "University" or "Conservatory" you want your name associate with and acquire their coursework requirements for the degree you are interested in. Find every academic (non-music) course you can and check on its availibility at the community college level and whether those credits will transfer equally to your "I'mimportant" school. Pound them out and check into schedules for the ensemble work you need.
Contrary to previously mentioned experience with ensemble scheduling, our large ensembles met in the early evening around 4 or 5 and/or 7PM. So you may want to check into that. No need to sit first chair in order to complete your degree this way.
Good luck to you. It is admirable to do what you are doing.
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2005-01-17 19:26
I concur with those who are recommending community college courses (transferrable) as the way to get a leg up on a four-year degree -- if you can fit the courses in.
I have a couple of other insights/questions, too.
My "insight" is that, even though it may take a while, you might as well start working toward the degree, if that's what you want in the long run. Time has a way of passing, whether or not you are doing anything worthwhile with it. So what if it takes ten years? That means if you go to school, even if it's for ten years, you will have what you wanted today. If you don't go to school, you won't. There's some (supposedly Chinese) proverb that goes like, "He who doesn't know where he is going will almost certainly get there." Amen to that.
My "question" is about why it is you want a music degree at all -- as you say, playing, not study, is your priority. Is it just for the satisfaction of saying you have a degree in Piccolo Performance, or whatever (no offense, piccolo performance majors!!!)? Do you want to teach? Something to "fall back on"? What?
I have a bachelor's degree in English Literature, and a Masters in American Studies. Since I got those degrees, I have also completed 121 hours of college and graduate music credits at a variety of institutions, including City College of San Francisco, which (at that point, at least) had a music program the equivalent of or superior to most lower division university programs.
This background wouldn't get me into an orchestra, or a public school, but it did get me into a series of good church directing jobs, and left me functionally very well-equipped for my professional goals.
So, it is entirely possible to work in music without a degree in music. Having said that, I would add that I probably would have been better off in the long run had I majored in music instead of English in the first place, but in my family-of-origin, that just wasn't going to happen.
If I could change anything that DID happen (over which I had personal control), I would have taken more applied courses (performance oriented courses, lessons, etc.). That's what I'm doing now. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
The only time its too late is when you are dead.
Susan
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-17 19:46
Quote:
My "question" is about why it is you want a music degree at all -- as you say, playing, not study, is your priority. Is it just for the satisfaction of saying you have a degree in Piccolo Performance, or whatever (no offense, piccolo performance majors!!!)? Do you want to teach? Something to "fall back on"? What? Mainly for the satisfaction of seeing something to the end. And if I'm gonna major in something, it may as well be something that I thoroughly ENJOY doing. True, I may never have a need for the degree (which with my current goals, IS the truth . . . I don't aim to teach or fall back on anything). However I DO have the free college money from my job coming in. And although I may never use it, I just think it'd be nice to have. Sorta like that fancy china in your cabinet. Nice to look at once in a while, but you don't NEED it. It just makes you feel nice knowing you have it. Or, for a more relevant comparison, your third best set of clarinets! Don't need 'em. Don't use 'em. But it's comforting to have and why pass it up if it's available.
Also, music won't be my only degree. It'll just be my first. I'm hoping eventually for a math, music, and physics diploma on my wall. Even though I'll never use 'em, I think I can get degrees in them. So why not? ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
I'm halfway there with math, about a quarter-way there with music.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-01-17 19:53
Hi,
As I look back on my music education degree, the most important courses were theory/harmony, pedagogy, and performance.
Alexi, a large student body like Rutgers does not mean that the music department is large and offers many sections of required courses. Also, there is a difference between core courses and required courses in a major. In many universities, the core requirments can be college wide and often include general education requirements (but these may be university-wide). You need to be sure that you clearly define your terms.
Transferability between some community colleges and 4 year universities can be difficult. However, where definitive articulaltion agreements exist or the state schools all work togther on transferability issues like I believe NC does, things are easy.
The key issue in transferability though is, does the student possess the required body of knowledge to do upper division work. If not, a lot of remediation occurs and greatly lenghtens the time for degree completion.
HRL
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-01-17 20:13
"Also, music won't be my only degree. It'll just be my first. I'm hoping eventually for a math, music, and physics diploma on my wall. Even though I'll never use 'em, I think I can get degrees in them. So why not?"
That's quite a question. Here's my view (and this is coming from someone double-majoring in computer science and music composition, looking at grad school in either or both)...
Assuming that cost is not a significant object, it largely depends on how long you want to stay in academia. A couple years in, you'll probably still be of the "I could stay here forever" opinion, but further down the line you might be itching to get out. If, at that time, you're close to one of the degrees you actually intend to use, you're all set. If, however, you've been floating between degrees and departments, you'll still be taking classes long after the fun wears off (it doesn't at all for some people. We call them "Professor"). Consider what, vaguely, you want to be doing ten years down the line and make sure you won't be upset with yourself.
Also (and this is painfully evident for me) consider that, in the time you'd do degrees in math, physics, and music, you could do grad school in one (maybe even two) of them instead.
On the other hand, it's not a race. Rather than this whole "means to an end" and "how soon can you graduate" mentality, I believe a person can get much more out of a university if they attempt to truly enjoy the moment.
As for me, I only have one set of clarinets (well, I have a spare student Bb) and try to minimize the amount of extra stuff I have lying around, as I'm recently in an extremely utilitarian phase.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Anna
Date: 2005-01-18 02:49
Alexi,
I am coming to the end of my own odyssey of getting a Bachelor's in Accounting part time in the evening. I'm delurking to pose a few questions of my own for your consideration in your quest.
1) Knowing that (at least here in NY) music classes, except the ensemble/symphony-type class, are held between 8 am and 5 pm, will your work schedule allow you to accomodate these classes?
If so, go for it.
2) Does Rutgers have summer sessions? Evening classes?
This is where you take your non-music classes if at all possible.
3) How many classes do you anticipate attending per semester?
I knew a woman at work who did the same thing I am working on and she often took three classes a semester. I also have a coworker whose spouse is taking four classes a semester. I can tell you it takes dedication, discipline, and MOTIVATION to do three or more classes in a semester. I took three once and won't do it again until I no longer feel like I've been going to school since kindergarten.
4) Most employer's won't pay for courses that have nothing to do with their business, will yours? (I assume so but just thought I'd double check.)
No offense to community colleges, I've attended a couple myself, but the only advantage is they are cheaper.
Get the degree you think you'll enjoy getting the most first, than the others or else you might feel like you've been going to school forever and boy does that drain the energy and enthusiasm.
Anna
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2005-01-18 13:07
Hank said:
---------------
"Hi,
As I look back on my music education degree, the most important courses were theory/harmony, pedagogy, and performance.
Alexi, a large student body like Rutgers does not mean that the music department is large and offers many sections of required courses. Also, there is a difference between core courses and required courses in a major. In many universities, the core requirments can be college wide and often include general education requirements (but these may be university-wide). You need to be sure that you clearly define your terms."
--------------
I received my Music degree from the largest University based music school in the country (currently about 1600 music majors I believe) and even that school doesn't offer lots of sections or many night classes. Also, I would think that there will be a point in the process where immersion is important. Even if you manage to go part time for a portion of your music degree, you'd probably want to go full time at so point - perhaps the final year - to take advantage of what that immersion will bring you.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-18 14:23
I'm glad I posted this up. It certainly has brought me lots of things to think about. Thanks so far for all the advice and for the other questions that have been brought up. Still have thinking to do about it, but once again, that's the purpose of this board. Helped me to look at it from other angles.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-01-18 15:23
Alexi:
FWIW I did a 4yr engineering degree in 6 years. I got my associates degree (2 yr degree) in 4 years working full time & schooling part time. At the end of the associates degree I quit my job & did the last 2 years full time. I thought that was a pretty good compromise that enabled me to get my education while still feeding & housing myself. Scholarships, grants, & savings got me through the last 2 years. In the grand scheme of things the extra two years was a nit.
I see no reason why a music degree could/would be any different. If anything IMO, it would be better as you would have more time to absorb & learn. I consider that a good thing.
MOO,
matt
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2005-01-18 15:38
<<Even if you manage to go part time for a portion of your music degree, you'd probably want to go full time at so point - perhaps the final year - to take advantage of what that immersion will bring you.>>
Since I did all my music coursework on a (very) part-time basis at a number of different colleges and universities, I would largely disagree with this sentiment. You can live and breathe music without being a part of the department or the school scene, as long as you are, in fact, living and breathing music.
Of course, I took my classwork not to get a degree, but because I was actually passionately interested in learning about the topics at hand. I DID make friends and was able to participate in the college communities during the times I was on campus, but my "immersion" came from the role music was (and is) playing in my day-to-day life.
It's a matter of self-definition, and who you hang out with when you're not at work or school.
Susan
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