 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2005-01-09 19:13
Did you change the key or was it originally with six flats almost the whole piece? You have to be very aware when there are six flats, when playing the piece. I got intrested and would like to try that piece if I could handle it when the time comes. It would also be great to perform it sometimes when the time is ready. A like the piece very much. Btw. Good luck to your tour, and have fun!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-01-09 19:35
Looks very difficult, way beyond me, even if transposed to an easier cl key. Ken Kolb, Langley Air Force [fine] cl'ist helped me find and obtain a concert band arr. of older Rosenkavalier selections, you might try contacting him, he is on our BB every now and then. Would sure like to hear you play it !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-01-09 19:52
Thank you Don, this chart, I can't be of much help; I'm pretty certain there isn't one out there living on a dusty Air Force library shelf. If in Virginia, you might try contacting Chuck West or Patti Carlson for a spare copy to be had. My other suggestion if a copy can't be located is have your staff arranger do it. And if your field band doesn't have one, contacting an arranger in one or both of your two Premiere bands to pen it. I'd also bet there's a budding arranger or two in your career field interested in the project for experience and/or exposure. Call around, or send out a calling all cars email among your own troops … or have your Commander, senior enlisted, or Top Shirt put out their feelers among their own. I worked for years with U.S military bands, Premiere and Regional; there's literally an endless stream of talent out there to discover and utilize. v/r Ken
Post Edited (2005-01-09 22:10)
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Author: musica
Date: 2005-01-09 22:28
Do you have the concert dates/locations yet? Would love to hear it if its
in the south Florida area
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-01-09 23:33
For those loving the work and wanting a means of performing it (in a better key), there is an arrangement for clarinet and piano by Walter P. Rogers c.1905 or something like that. THAT is the version I had learned! (This may be a bear to learn in six flats by tour, but I really want to perform this version with the band,...so....). [Edit: It is turning out not to be that tough in this key. Things lie decently. I will make my Sibelius files available after the tour for those interested. I may be able to save them as Finale files (or something Finale can import) as well...I will try.]
The version we are doing is a manuscript and I am not really sure who did it. All that came with it is a piano score of the original violin piece with Sid Berg's notes for performance. Maybe someone out there knows the background for this arrangement. I did notice that there is an arrangement available from a group in Switzerland and it appears to be in one flat for the clarinet (the same key as the piano score mentioned above, oddly enough). It is copyrighted by Editions Marc Reift if you'd like to seek that out. I will be. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
The only recording I have of this piece with clarinet and band is of Al Ascercion here in Virginia Beach. He is pretty popular for his double & triple-tonguing and circular breathing. I believe I had one of him playing it with Norfolk State back in the 80s or early 90s. I just paid for one with him playing it with the Tidewater Winds. The performance was very sub-par. Sub-par for any live performance and horribly sub-par for Al, who is an extremely talented player and superb showman. I'm not sure what happened with that performance.
In any case, even though I realize performances like that happen from time to time, I have begun to wonder how much of my fascination with his playing was from the starstruck view of a naive highschool player which is when I first heard him.
Admittedly I am being unfair to Al's performance on another level. I am listening to Itzhak Perlman as I type (about the fourth listening this evening) and I believe Al missed the whole picture painted in the slow section. While I realize the Perlman is deity among musicians, I do believe much more can be done with the clarinet sound to more closely portray what Perlman reveals from the piece (and I believe Perlman's revelation to be accurate to the Gypsy style intended by Sarasate).
In any case, that will be my attempt as I prepare this piece. First is to understand and portray the meaning in the first half of the piece. Second, to convince my commander to trust me and bring the group along. I fear it may end up being too metronomic or rushed because of the time crunch of putting this together along with a large list of other difficult pieces for tour. But I will go into it knowing what I want and let it flow from there. Being an E-4 without a superstar history or name behind me, it is difficult to argue for your ideas (though Major Esch is open to many things!).
For the when and where, go here http://bands.army.mil/webschedule.asp?date=next_90&band=50AB&location=ALL Problem is that I do not know which day(s) will be mine. There are two other soloists (Flute and Trumpet). We will be divided between 5 performances.
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
Post Edited (2005-01-10 02:55)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-01-09 23:43
Robert,
Transposition-wise, would playing it on an A make it easier?
US Army Japan Band
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-01-09 23:48
Sidney Berg most likely arranged it for the Clarinetist Larry Scripp who was at Maury High School in the early 60's. I remember seeing a recording of it with Mr. Ricardo who worked w/Berg.
Scripp was a monster player who got something like 8th place when Wright got the Boston job. My Uncle who started me on Clarinet played under Berg with Scripp at Maury. Scripp got 1st Chair in All Va. Band every year if I recall.
Al would have been retired for several years if you heard him play in the early 90's. So his performance was probably from not being in great practice.
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-01-10 01:16
<<Transposition-wise, would playing it on an A make it easier?>>
On A clarinet, the beginning may be a little easier (the six flats looks more formibidable than it really is). But it puts the Allegro Vivace part in C-sharp and E-major. Maybe the reasoning is coming through in our explorations of keys and instruments here.
<<Al would have been retired for several years if you heard him play in the early 90's. So his performance was probably from not being in great practice.>>
No doubt. I just wish they would not have put that recording on there and then sell it. I paid $10 for a cassette tape with a performance (while flashy at points) that had the quality of a young college player who blew off preparation and got embarassed. (I've done that too...unfortunately. Nobody pays for my recordings though.)
I may end up making an arrangement of this if nothing pans out. Shoot...I will be heading to Korea in May...for at least a year and a half. Should have plenty of time.
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-01-10 15:15
Charles Neidich played Ziguenerweisen at the Mannes Clarinet Day a couple of years ago. He may have read it from the violin part, since he attempted the harmonics above super C, and actually hit most of them.
Good luck. It's a great piece.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-01-10 22:18
Hey! It turns out that it lies well under the fingers with practice. It is the mind that has issues with the "notes", not the fingers. Practice a little and the mind lets go of the six flats and it feels kind of impressive to play it for someone. Heh.
The most difficult thing, after getting past the mind games with the keys (c-flat is still catching me off-guard), is the speed of the articulation. I am going to change the early flourish back somewhat to the original clarinet part and rewrite the 256th notes to more accurately reflect the articulation in the violin solo part.
Today is the first day that I sat down to drill some of the parts and I can already see a top speed somewhere near quarter = 140 or so, articulated.
I hope to put my work on the clarinet part on the web for you to print for yourself. I am an avid Sibelius person so you will need to download the Scorch plug-in from their site. Please understand, to make the flourishes and cadenza stuff to play back correctly yet still look like the part should look would take much more time than I have right now. So if you decide to play it back...try and keep up with the flourishes. Go to my website and to the Music area to check for the parts. www.musix4me.com
We've ordered the arrangement from Switzerland mentioned in a previous post. We hope to have it by Monday at the latest. After learning this version, I'm not sure I want to relearn it in a new key. But it might be good for me,...so...we'll see.
Take care,
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-01-10 22:40
Intersting key choice, Robert, my edition (violin and piano) has the piece in much more clarinet friendly keys: A-flat major (1st section) and C major (Molto vivace) meaning that it would be in B-flat and then D major ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-01-10 22:49
This key choice was done by a previous arranger who put this together for clarinet and band—tis the only version I could find for immediate use. We are ordering an arrangement from Switzerland (reference previous posts) that appears to follow the key areas you are suggesting. We'll see what that does for the piece.
Like I said, it really is not that troublesome finger-wise through the e-flat minor part.
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-01-10 23:01
There are also some wonderful Fritz Kriesler pieces for violin and piano that would probably transcribe to clarinet and (gently orchestrated) symphonic band - schoen rosmarin springs to mind.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-01-21 21:29
Latest news on the Zigeunerweisen performance on tour:
The only performance they have me slotted for is in Brandon, Florida which appears to be a suburb of Tampa Bay. The date looks like February 5th, Saturday evening around 7:00 PM. From what I can gather at this point it is in the Crosstown Church there. There should be some kind of advertisements locally...hopefully. ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
It also appears that only SGM Heffernan from the Field Band will be joining us. That is somewhat of a relief because he has always been very appreciative and nice to everyone who has auditioned for them when I've been there. Still pressure though.
If someone on the list has the chance to see the performance, I would love to meet you. Stop by afterwards and say hello.
Take care,
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-01-22 00:20
I live on Space Coast (Rockledge, Fl) but have relatives in Newport Richey. I could easily kill two birds driving to the west coast that weekend. I'll look for the ads and sponsoring newspaper offering tickets by mail. If not, hopefully being a military band concert there will be walk-in seats if I arrive 2 hours early. What else is on the program? v/r Ken
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-01-26 20:56
When will the day come that I will get to play a solo with a group (actually, I've been able to with a string quartet and it was wonderful...but that does not count for my gripe session here ) like a band or orchestra and the director is either: 1. humble enough to allow the soloist to say what and how they want to play a line (like GYPSY music!!) or 2. reasonable enough to know that you simply cannot beat steady time through a cadenza EVEN IF THE GROUP HAS MOVING BEATS IN IT?!
Wow, this piece is on the verge of NOT being performed basically because my director is resistent to letting go of beating time. It is not as simple as that, but certainly that is the gist of what is going on. Today, playing through the first couple pages of the Zigeunerweisen, he is saying things like "I can't hold the band back too long...." WHAT?! ![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif) I don't know whether he is feeling pressured because I actually know what I want to do with the solo or if he really believes that? Both situations are sad. If you don't understand why this would bother a soloist, please go listen to this piece. LOL! The director simply has to know the chord movements, fermatas and the resolution patterns and move the group along in this kind of music. In fact, a slight delay in the response from the group is perfectly fine and appropriate to this kind of solo!!
I am so frustrated right now, musically. I spend hours in the evening practicing (trying to memorize) this piece for tour in a couple days and know exactly what I want to do. Then I stand in front of the band and BLAH! Sometimes there is no way I can rush fast enough through cadenza beats to arrive with the stick.
Sigh. ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
Giving credit where due: I admit that they very easily could have canceled this performance considering that the parts are terribly written and he is working from a Piano and Solo Violin score. My solo is slightly different than the violin part in his score (though it lines up in the same places, just different patterns for the cadenza). The handwritten band parts are different from the score he is using as well so he sees piano tremolos and the band has sustained chords and moving base lines, for example. It is difficult, I admit, but it is simply a matter of listening to the soloist, marking notes in the score for resolutions and whatnot, and then expressing that to the band to enter into their parts. Familiarity with a piece like this does wonders. If the band were familiar enough, they could probably play without the conductor.
Anyway...I am going to practice/memorize more tonight and get ready for my first rehearsal in front of SGM Heffernan of the Army Field Band (he is the principal clarinet player there). He will rehearse with us for tour that starts Monday.
Thanks for...er...listening?
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-01-27 02:14
You did see them, and yes they do exist, just not properly for this piece. That is an early copy when I was trying to figure out how to split measures and make that cadenza fit. I will post a better, more accurate version on Sunday evening, I hope.
The 128ths in measure 17 are cadenza-like and have a slow-fast-slow effect when I play them.
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-01-30 22:13
Here are the final pages that I will be using on the performance in Tampa (Brandon), Florida. Rehearsals have gone better and I hope it is a fulfilling performance.
(EDIT: It appears that I could not change the original attachments nor add anymore. I will put them on a new thread.)
Take care,
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
Post Edited (2005-01-30 22:34)
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