 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-01-05 13:29
Hi,
As someone that survived things like Bloody Friday and other wonderful Interlochen traditions, all I can say is WWDMD "What Would Dr. Maddy Do?"
I can see the need to change to 6 weeks rather than 8 weeks; it's all about marketing. However, I'm still an old-timer that remembers when there was only National Music Camp (NMC).
HRL
PS I have become more resistant to pledge pleas in the last several years.
Post Edited (2005-01-05 15:40)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-01-05 17:54
Drew McManus makes a devastating case against the current administration. See http://www.artsjournal.com/adaptistration/archives/topicarchives#I. While he's clearly on one side of the controversy, he backs up his opinion with facts and figures.
Nevertheless, Interlochen was antiquated and inflexible in important ways even when I was there in the late 1950s and early 60s. With Uncle Joe Maddy, it was "my way or the highway." The need for change is probably at least as urgent today.
"America's Gifted Youth" has survived and will continue to survive, even if longstanding faculty members depart, the weekly challenges end and blue corduroy knickers and thick knee-socks for the women disappear. The important part is the experience of being really good, and meeting and making music with other really good people.
I had the time of my life there. The experience sustained me through the dreary mediocrity of high school. As long as the same kind of kids go there, Interlochen will be great.
Ken Shaw
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Author: earlthomas
Date: 2005-01-05 21:22
In between my two summers' teaching at the NMC, a pupil called me long distance for some technical advice. I responded as well as I could and said something like, we can go into more detail during his lessons in the coming summer. He then told me that he would not be studying with me, but with Mr. Forest because it would be more politically advantageous for him, and he was sure I would understand. At the time, I thought something was not quite right up there, and during the coming summer I heard some "horror stories" about the competition for principal clarinet in the World Youth Orchestra. That was more than 23 years ago.
Perhaps the Interlochen administration began to wonder about political advantageousness and its propriety in the artistic education of young aspiring musicians.
I've talked to many, many music educators about the Interlochen Challenge system, and at least 95% of them abhored the practice. When I supervised the Friday challenges it was totally obvious that the "voting" was being abused by a few of the more politically motivated members of the ensemble.
So, I re-arranged the seating during the challenges so that no one could see how the voting was going. This caused the more manipulative members quite a lot of consternation. I think the voting thereafter was a bit more honest.
I heard about Mr. Maddy from one of my former conductors who along with his friend and colleague, Percy Grainger, was an original faculty member at the NMC. I've read his little book, too. I thought most of his ideas were valid and practical, but would have to state that the challenge "system" left itself open to manipulation and unfairness.
There are and were many wonderful teachers at Interlochen's NMC. I hope none of them were mailed the "form letter". Quite a few of the faculty maintain summer homes there; so, termination would present a real financial setback. However, things change and my hat is off to the administration for trying to right some of the wrongs of the past.
Since I have spent most of my life marching to a different drummer, and managed to survive with some degree of success, I am personally delighted that anchor tonguing will not be ignored at the NMC.
Post Edited (2005-01-05 21:35)
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2005-01-06 04:50
I spent a summer studying with Mr. Forrest at Interlochen, and he was a delightful teacher. I still have my lessons notebook and read it from time to time. I am sorry to see that his association with the camp has been ended in this fashion. He deserves better.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-01-06 09:34
i was a "band/orchestra librarian" at Interlochen in the middle of my masters degree, but i never actually studied at the music camp.
it was never explained to me exactly why the top orchestra was called the "World Youth Orchestra" (as, put simply, it wasn't any such thing), but this kind of self agrandisement was fairly typical of what i saw around me.
....on the other hand, i also saw lots of teenagers who were having a great time and certainly benefiting from a fabulous musical experience- certainly there seemed to be some pretty good musicians in the faculty (especially if you were into classical saxophone).
i will never forget my last evening there- that dance thing that is traditionally done on the roof to "les Preludes" was brilliantly absurd, quite charmingly silly- like a time capsule from ages past..... and then the kids all started crying at each other (made me feel like an old cynic it did...)
i would have loved it all if i'd been there when i was 15, hopefully it will emerge from change a better place, but firing most of the staff doesn't seem like a good way to go about this.....
donald
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-01-06 14:55
What brings back more emotion than Les Preludes is the Interlochen Theme, conducted by the concertmaster at the end of each concert, usually using the bow instead of a baton.
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Author: steve s
Date: 2005-01-06 16:41
I attended the national music camp during Mr. Thomas’s tenure as an instructor. He was a superbly generous teacher with a decidedly different approache to tone production on the clarinet. Although Mr. Forrest was my primary instructor, Mr. Thomas was a section coach in an ensemble I played in. Mr. Thomas and I had long discussions about articulation techniques and the use of a different embouchure approach that he called the “soft cushion”. I still remember attending a recital in which he played the Poulenc sonata with heartbreaking beauty and astonishing technical verve, and later, over some ice cream, he told me fascinating stories about attending Juilliard many years ago and how much he loved to teach and play the clarinet. I found all of the instructors at the national music camp to be approachable and this way, and found that I can learn more about music in eight weeks than I could during the entire school year. I treasure the memories of my years there. That being said, I found the challenge system to be idiotic. Unfortunately it took me several years of college to realize that the only real challenge is between you and your expectations of yourself. I believe people like Mr. Thomas put me on the road realize this, and I think this was the lesson I took away from Interlochen.
Mr. Forrest used to tap me on the nose with a pencil when he was not pleased with my results, and drew intricate graffiti on my method books that I still cherish today. studying with him was one of the high points of my youth. As was playing under Howard Hanson.
However, reading the Interlochen web site, I noticed the faculty is being divided up into “fellows” and members, with a suggestion that the fellows will be teaching extremely gifted youth, as opposed to gifted youth. I could be misinterpreting the literature, but I think this is a horrible way to go.
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Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2005-01-06 18:42
You can go to Aspen and study with a major symphony principal (if you are at least in high school). In fact you will likely sit next to a major symphony principal in the orchestra on your instrument as well as being surrounded by other major players of other instruments. That is worth a dozen lessons right there.
You can go to any number of other places and study with fine professionals who are young and in touch with what is going on.
None of them will hit you on the nose with a pencil (to my knowledge) or cheat against you in challenges because you DON'T study with them.
You can still go to Interlochen and study with distinguished college professors.
Interlochen will survive the departure of Forrest just like Peabody did. It may even improve. More than one very good clarinet teacher quit teaching at Interlochen camp (or was not rehired) because of Forrest, and that wasn't good for anyone. I have spoken with some people up there who are very excited about some of the new faculty and guest artists who are being recruited. If even a third of them actually sign it could prove to be a positive development for the place.
As for the Alumni, being one myself I remember that all we did when we were there was complain about the place. Now the alumni are demanding that everything stay the same. Typical. Alumni can be the biggest pains in the rear. . . just ask any college sports program.
Joe Maddy did not invent challenges to test the mettle of young people and prepare them for the harsh realities of life. He invented them because it got the music learned in time for that week's concert. It proved to be effective for a while, but it became corrupted and abused by certain members of the faculty and stopped accomplishing its goals in a fair, impartial way.
Interlochen is now one choice among many and if it is going to compete it must change. Maybe this will be a disaster but only time will tell. Certainly, there are plenty of distinguished teachers out there who will more than make up for those not being rehired. That is the least of the worries.
Post Edited (2005-01-07 04:00)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-01-24 18:36
It really sounds to me like Interlochen is being "dummed" down just like everything else in America today.
and to his advantage... Sid Forrest will go on being a legend in the clarinet world...rightly so because he is a brilliant teacher....
but few people at this moment will say...."Hey, Who is the Clarinet prof at Peabody?" And, for that matter what does Peabody conservatory have to do with this issue?
Sadly, it seems excellence and change can only take place if someone of Mr. Forrest's skill and knowledge replaces him! As this becoming a reality will be of interest...
As to imply there are alot of people of his stature in the realm of teaching who can is suspicious.
IN fact, if anything, why doesn't INTERLOCHEN get it's act together and explain what it's really up to...if anything it is going down down down...
too bad because it was a great place to learn!
David Dow
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2005-01-24 21:17
"You can go to Aspen and study with a major symphony principal (if you are at least in high school). In fact you will likely sit next to a major symphony principal in the orchestra on your instrument as well as being surrounded by other major players of other instruments. That is worth a dozen lessons right there."
I wish...... Yeah I might be in high school but that doesn't mean I can get into somewhere like Aspen etc. I'm not trying to start anything, but that statement made the opportunities seem a lot more accessible than they really are.
Bradley
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Author: psf
Date: 2005-01-25 14:24
Re: Sidney Forrest and Paula Forrest
I want to respond to the many people who have written in regarding my father's and my no longer teaching at Interlochen.
As you may have gathered from the NY Times and elsewhere, we are hardly alone in our treatment by the new administration. Well over 50 music faculty members were cut (out of about 120), all receiving the same form letter. This included many of the most beloved teachers with years of experience there, as well as some newer ones. It included some who actually asked questions and made comments at meetings; others who never said a word. Yes, it included people with homes there, people who had given substantial financial support, people who had sent myriad fabulous students to study there, to the benefit of both Interlochen and the students.
I am writing this because my father does not use e-mail, although I think he'll be on line soon. When I'm aware of them, I read him the postings over the phone (he still lives in Maryland, outside of Washington, and I am in Iowa).
David Dow's most recent comments were brought to my attention by one of the bulletin board's avid readers. (I'm glad to know about it too!) Thank you, David, and others, for the very lovely--and I feel totally deserved--remarks about my dad's teaching. He still has a large class of students, although he's emeritus at Peabody now and doesn't make the trek to Baltimore.
Everyone on the bulletin board might also be interested to know that Interlochen is cutting by about one-half, the number of clarinets who will now be playing in each HS orchestra, as well as in the bands. More like a "professional orchestra", perhaps; less like an educational opportunity for numerous worthy individuals.
Again, thanks for the remarks.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-01-25 14:36
Paula -
Thanks for the response.
Please give my best to your father. I studied with him at Interlochen in the summer of 1959 and learned a tremendous amount. I also think I have all of his recordings, or at least the ones that appeared on Lyrichord.
I assume you know about the online source for excellent interview he gave to James Gholson. See http://www.clarinetdepot.com/articles/gholson1.htm
I'm sure Interlochen will survive. I had the time of my life there.
Ken Shaw
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