 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dana J
Date: 2005-01-05 02:36
Hello everyone,
I've really frustrated with intonation on my r13. I know r13 is a "sharp" instrument but simply pulling out doesn't seem to solve the problem.
I've been told putting tapes in tone wholes could bring down the pitch of the clarinet.
I was just wondering where I would put the tape for high c (in the third register).
Is there any downside to this method?
Also, is intonation a constant struggle for a lot of people?
Do people work on this in their daily practising? If so, could anyone suggest any particular books or exercises?
Thank you very much in advance.
Dana.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-01-05 03:16
How is the intonation bad? In the context of a tuner, with another person, or with an ensemble?
If your instrument is consistently sharp, it could very well be an airstream and embouchre problem.
To prove my point, get a friend to help you with this. Play any note, especially one that tends to be sharp. Instruct them to push on the physically lowest finger you have put down. With a high C, they would press your thumb; with a middle B, on your right pinky. More likely than not, that will bring the pitch down a good 10-20 cents. Once you've realized this, you can begin focusing on pushing the air through the tube, past the last closed finger, rather than "playing the mouthpiece," and on above-the-break notes you can start to avoid "playing to the register key."
The best thing for me, for intonation, is sitting as the second person on any part in an ensemble. (e.g. 2nd chair 3rd) At that point, it is very easy to work on intonation... if you can hear yourself clearly, you are out of tune and should correct it up or down. If your sound becomes just a filling of color, a shimmer of body added to the ensemble, you are in tune.
As for tape, I have no experience, but I imagine that care should be used in selection and application, less you damage the part of the clarinet you've taped.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-01-05 03:24
EEBaum wrote:
> As for tape, I have no experience, but I imagine that care
> should be used in selection and application, less you damage
> the part of the clarinet you've taped.
Damage with a little piece of tape in the hole? That'd be a bit difficult!
Putting small pieces of electrical (plastic) tape in the holes is a very respected way of doing fine tuning on a clarinet. May I recommend that you get a copy of Larry Guy's " Intonation Training for Clarinetists"? It has some very useful information on when and how to use tape, and the overall effects, along with a lot more very useful and practical information. Gary VanCott, a sponsor (http://www.vcisinc.com) carries it.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-01-05 03:53
When I hear "tape", I tend to first think Scotch or Masking, which is why I was a bit concerned I suppose... when they're removed they tend to take things with them. Larry Guy's reed book is excellent, perhaps I'll pick up a copy of this book as well.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Jazz3774
Date: 2005-01-05 14:58
Dana,
I have a similar problem with my Selmer 10S. It goes sharp as soon as I pass A above the staff up to C.
Tape inserts is a good way to resolve the issue. I used several kinds: duct tape, electrical tape, some 3M window sealant (which has glue on one side).
I think the duct tape works really good because the glue is strong and you can add thin layers as you play test the horn. Plus the tape can be removed at any time with no damage to the instrument.
Start by placing small pieces of tape (half the diameter of the tone hole) on the "upper" side of the tone hole chimney. (the one closest to the barrel)
Play test with a tuner and add tape as necessary.
I also use tunning rings for the middle joint and they work quite well. Using the rings and some tape on the C chimney took care of the tuning problem for me. I also use the longer barrel. (my Selmer came with two barrels)
Hope this helps.
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2005-01-05 15:28
I read that the clarinetists of old put wax into the tone holes to modify the pitch.
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Author: William
Date: 2005-01-05 15:40
In addition to using tape in the B/F tone hole chimmny, you might try lowering the heighth of the Bb/Eb pad. Also, the register key may be opening too far and causing the C5 to go sharp.
However, in the "final" analysis, C5 will always tend to "go sharp" on most clarinets and must be controlled via embouchure adjustment and your own natural musical ear. Remember that good intonation is good cooperation between all members of any ensemble and not necessarily always "right on" between you and your tuning meter. Your meter should only be a guide for learning the tendencies of your clarinet, not an end in itself.
Even a "well tuned" piano is really--and necessarily--badly out of tune with itself. (investigate "tempered" tuning) Ensembles are much the same way as natures "just" tuning system does not work well between harmonic changes that need temperment. The tuning meter may tell you that your C5 is perfect, but in the reality of live performance, that "perfection" often needs to be tempered up or down. A good rule of thumb is that if any note on your clarinet is within 2 cents of "perfect" on your tuning meter, that is within acceptable range for excellant ensemble intonation.
Learn to listen and adjust, according to the intonational "needs" of others--especially the brass when they enter at FF (and usually are sharp). Good luck!!
Post Edited (2005-01-05 15:43)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-01-05 16:08
No one said it better than David Hattner:
"...Clarinets don't play in tune, great musicians who play the clarinet play in tune.
Anyone who thinks there is any such thing as 'set it and forget it' in terms of clarinet equipment and playing in tune have no idea what it means to play in tune.
No one 'plays in tune' just like that. Anyone who is in tune all the time is working hard at it every second he or she is playing.
If you aren't concentrating on intonation DURING EVERY NOTE YOU PLAY, I'll bet big money you play out of tune a lot of the time. Probably way way out of tune..."
...GBK
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-01-06 04:38
Instead of tape, either nail polish or PVA glue is jut fine, applied with the eye of a needle. If you later need to remove it, it pushes off quite easily. I picked up this tip from a top recorder maker.
If there is too much PVA or nail polish, it can be reduced by filing with a rat-tail file.
Tape that comes unstuck will certainly make a mess of the sound. Also, tape has non-setting adhesive, which is a bit risky so close to pads.
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Author: Dana J
Date: 2005-01-06 08:28
Thank you all for your thoughtful advice~!
I am beginning to suspect that my problem probably comes from lack of support and my embochure. I know I do have a tendancy to bite a lot. I guess it's back to double lip for a while.
Do any of you use double lip to bring down pitch?
Thanks again.
D.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-01-06 08:48
I moved down a size in reeds to bring my pitch down. I was using V12 4 exclusively and my teacher suggested I move down, allowing for a looser embouchre. I find double lip useful for long tone warmups to help with airstream, etc., but personally can't use it effectively for literature.
Pulling out a lot brought my pitch down, as did a slightly longer barrel, but mostly my pitch went down by listening, and by internalizing what the airstream should be doing.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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