 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2004-12-23 02:47
Okay, most of us have probably heard Stoltzman's recording of this piece and have desired to have it [if you have not heard it, stop right now and seek out the recording and listen to it!]. Well I'm "in a mood" right now, long story, and I'd really like to ask if anyone out there knows how to get a hold of the score for the arrangement that Stoltzman did? Surely the score has found its way beyond the reach of Mr. Stoltzman [whom I have the deepest respect for as a musician].
How about a clarinet and piano (or other) version?
I find it amazing that Stoltzman's version is better than ANY vocal performance of that song I have ever experienced. The operatic vocal interpretations seem to DETRACT from rather than promote what would seem the natural intentions of Puccini with that melody. Ah...the power of melody!!!
Thanks in advance.
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2004-12-23 02:54
Hi Robert,
A version for clarinet and piano is included in Richard Stoltzman's "Aria" (same as the CD title) published by Carl Fischer. The book is widely available for around $25.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-12-23 03:12
better than any VOCAL ...
that's an entirely amazing remark. Frankly, and by no means denegrating Mr Stoltzman, but give me the late Renata Tebaldi or Renata Scotto anyday over a clarinet version.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-23 12:56
"better than any VOCAL ..."
Ah,Moody, you certainly must be in a mood. Evidently you haven't heard many (any?) operatic vocal performances of the piece. Listen to Callas as well as the above.....and then post your opinion again....please.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2004-12-23 15:26
First of all, Jack, thanks for enlightening me of the collection book from the CD. I will look into that.
I have a lot of opinions about things and often I type\speak before I should have. In this case, let us please just agree to disagree. I am generally not a fan of how operatic singers sing, on the whole. I appreciate when operatic stars can step away from driven, spread vibrato on every single note they sing and learn to mix it up. In my taste, the singers I have heard detract more from the melody when they apply that horrid, motorized vibrato to Puccini's "Mio Bambino".
That's just my opinion and after going and listening to samples of some of the singers mentioned and others that showed up in the search, my opinion is just reinforced! Below is a link to the best example that I could find in a cursory search.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B0000084JD001009/0/103-2813545-8322246
And though the singers did try, none, I repeat none of them had/have the vocal nuance to slip into the leaps of the melody as Stoltzman does.
Again, I hope we can agree to disagree. I was truly posting to find out information about the availability of the score, not asking for people's opinions about whether a clarinet can top the voice in the delivery of melody.
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-12-24 17:41
You need to get out more often, Bob.
There are at least four vocalists, currently at Juilliard that could make you get out your hanky covering this chestnut.
And they're just KIDS.
There's a good reason singing is called "The first Art" - and clarinet players end up conducting high school bands... the elemental connection to an audience is made with nothing more than a strong voice.
Tempermental as they may be, singers bring in the crowds.
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Author: cpmbnick
Date: 2004-12-24 20:32
I'm both an aspiring clarinetist and opera singer at a University of repute, and I find it very difficult to compare the ultimate result of singing and clarinet playing. There is much in common with both, of course (since they ARE technically both "wind instruments"). But I find beauty is a relative thing, especially in regards to music. I could muse on this for ages, just because I've thought so much about the similarities and differences between both forms of musical communication. But I'll just say that some people appreciate particular mediums more than others. Personally, I think I well-trained female vocalist would sound better for this aria any day, but not everybody sees (hears?) vocal music the way I do. Who knows....
Nick
P.S. This is my first entry on the BBoard in a couple of years... So, even if I seem like an unfamiliar face, I've really been here all along ;-)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-25 13:05
The great Daniel Bonade advised all of his students to play as if they were singing. When one posts here one can anticipate comments on anything that is maintained as or sounds like gospel. I doubt that even Stoltzman would agree with your premise.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2004-12-28 18:13
Been away and now back.
<<The great Daniel Bonade advised all of his students to play as if they were singing. When one posts here one can anticipate comments on anything that is maintained as or sounds like gospel. I doubt that even Stoltzman would agree with your premise.>>
For the record, I never suggested anything as gospel. I simply said that I do not like motor-like vibrato that is often found in operatic style singing. Now, I went and listened to recordings of the people you suggested and still did not come back with the verdict you hold. That is fine. I simply prefer Stoltzman's turning of the phrase over ANY of the operatic singers I have heard thus far.
As for clarinet pedagogues using the singing analogy to teach clarinet phrasing, I do not disagree. Analogies to string and brass instruments are used all the time as well. Where they foster a more musical line from the student, I think they are great. Just because the analogies are drawn does not imply one is "better" or prefered than the other. I have performed voice, clarinet and piano pieces where the very well known vocal teacher compared my sustaining of the sound in a phrase to the proper way that the SINGER should emulate.
<<But I'll just say that some people appreciate particular mediums more than others. Personally, I think I well-trained female vocalist would sound better for this aria any day, but not everybody sees (hears?) vocal music the way I do. Who knows....>>
I certainly appreciate your willingness to allow others to have a differing opinion. I just want to reitterate that I do not believe either instrument/voice is better than the other for all things. I am simply refering to what I have heard of vocalists singing the Puccini "Mio Bambino" compared to the "Aria" recording where Stoltzman plays a version of the same melody.
<<You need to get out more often, Bob.>>
Thanks. You know nothing about me, my exposure and background with this topic.
<<There are at least four vocalists, currently at Juilliard that could make you get out your hanky covering this chestnut. And they're just KIDS.>>
You assume too much. Then again, it is possible that they are wonderful with the aria and I would love it! So far, no-one has produced or pointed me to an accessible recording of someone singing the aria better (IMO) than Stoltzman turns the phrases. I would love to hear the kids. Being young they may actually step away from the seemingly traditional motor-vibrato approach to operatic singing.
<<There's a good reason singing is called "The first Art">>
And it is not from what you are implying. Singing is the first art in that it has always been available (for the individual and historically) and probably the first to be trained, though I admittedly do not have documented proof of any history supporting that.
<<-and clarinet players end up conducting high school bands...>>
That comment is about as ignorant as I've seen on these or any boards.
I'm still open for someone to point me to a recording that I can listen to where the singer touches me more in their delivery than Stoltzman does of this aria. I'm also still interested in finding the full score for the arrangement that Stoltzman did. Thanks.
(Edit: Not sure I understand the reply that follows—meaning or purpose.)
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
Post Edited (2004-12-28 23:11)
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-12-28 23:02
Let us form a poll of those recordings sold with this particular chart, comparing the sales of vocals to all other renderings.
Two groups of people in discourse;
Those with whom I agree, that find me brilliant.
Those with whom I disagree, that consider my insight dim.
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Author: idahofats
Date: 2004-12-29 03:31
Robert:
I can't help with locating the score, but I find the controversy you incidentally stimulated interesting. I agree with you to a certain extent regarding sopranos and "mechanical" vibrato. I can't listen to Wagnerian sopranos for very long at a time without getting a headache. I wonder if, to some extent, we have these disagreements because each of us represents a different resonating cavity, with different capacity for frequency equalization? Obviously, as we get older and damage to our ears becomes cumulative and irreversible, certain ranges become distasteful to us. In my case, I operated a jackhammer for a while, and worked underneath an automated conveyor belt til I thought I'd go bonkers, and now some Heavy Metal and Industrial music drives me to the brink of tears.
Anyway, since I'm an opinionated codger, I thought I'd close with a couple 1970s recommendations for vocal enjoyment (not Puccini, per se): Mezzo Marilyn Horne, coloratura Margaret Price, and folk singer Ivan Rebroff (four-octave range.) Go in peace.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-12-29 03:57
I'm sitting at my desk listening to a 35 year old LP of mezzo-soprano Regina Resnick (on my new turntable ... and now stereo - the old one developed a 60 cycle hum) ... glorious.
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Author: idahofats
Date: 2004-12-29 14:56
Mark and Robert:
Disclaimer: not trying to get anyone in trouble with his/her significant other. Just remembered a factoid about men tending to go deaf in the range of their wives' voices, and women going deaf in the range of their childrens' voices. Maybe this has a bearing on what we enjoy as consumers. However, I do think that an appreciation of 60-cycle hum is something that must be acquired by diligent, attentive listening.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2004-12-29 15:03
How 'bout the kids' heaaring, idaho? As a parent I think it is the funniest thing that in the Peanuts cartoons when an adult speaks he or she always is heard saying '"bwa buh-ba bwah bwah--" As far as the 60-cycle hum goes, turn it around and use it as a meditation point
I actually find many of the selections in Stoltzman's Aria collection to be refreshing not because I don't like to listen to vocalists perform them. but because they are performed so often an instrumental interpretation gives a different sound and point of view.
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Author: idahofats
Date: 2004-12-29 15:18
Clarinetwife:
Huh? Whud you say? Couldn't hear you for the hum...yes, I agree, and that may be why we clarinetists lust after 'cello and violin repertoire, too---sometimes a change of timbre is all we need to gain a fresh perspective. Scuze me---got to get back to my chant.
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