 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Fred
Date: 2004-12-18 20:25
Can the design of a barrel change the length you need? For example, if I play a 66mm R13 barrel, does it necessarily follow that I would play a 66mm Buffet Chadash or 66mm Buffet Moennig barrel? How about going to a third party barrel - Scott, Morgan, etc?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Burt
Date: 2004-12-18 21:13
I found that a 65mm DEG Chadash Eddie Daniels was equivalent to a 66mm DEG (old design with the fins) in terms of pitch.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fred
Date: 2004-12-18 21:27
When I bought my Ched 1+ mouthpiece from Greg Smith, he recommended a 65mm Buffet barrel to replace my 66mm Buffet stock barrel. I'm glad I took that recommendation; a 66mm would have been too long. But I don't know if it was the barrel design or the change in mouthpiece that caused me to need 1mm shorter barrel.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2004-12-18 23:53
Hmm......that could have also been a result of Gregs mouthpiece design. I have two of his models--Cicero Kaspar and Chedeville--and both mouthpieces play a few cents flater than my vintage Kaspar or Bay mouthpieces. They are great products, but I just need to use a slightly shorter barrel when I use them.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-12-19 00:34
*****Can the design of a barrel change the length you need?*****
The simple answer is YES. What isn't 'simple' would be WHY.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hartt
Date: 2004-12-19 01:35
Fred
Thanks for your post, that's an interesting thought.
Eonssss ago, I played on a Bay that Charlie made for me at an Ithaca workshop in 65 (oh , what a mp). I used it for 7 yrs playing it with a stock R13 and a Opperman bbl Kal made for me, both 66mm. I also had /still have an old Chedville that was great. Then, I stopped playing for 28 yrs.
I've since given that Bay mp to an old friend so I don't know what bbl length is accomodating to it now.
Playing again now for 3 yrs, I've tried many mp's. Virtually every mass produced manufacturer and dozens of customs.
Perhaps it's the yrs off, age, body changes but all 9 of my R13's (Bb/A) play flat with a 66mm (Buffet, Charash Moening, Fobes, Backun) A 65mm is borderline. Harder reeds invaribly would influence pitch but they pose other difficulties for me. I use a V12 #3. Recently, I had Guy cut/re taper a 66 to a 64mm. It works fine.
Clark Fobes made me a 64mm and that too plays in pitch (for me). It's Rosewood and tends to give a trifle lighter (not brighter) sound than his Grenadilla version.
He also made me a mp on his new Zinner blank, it's phenonomal. He was kind enough to make me an San Fran Alto sax mp on the same Zinner blank which I've not tried as of yet (recouping from surgery).
Equally interesting as your question of design, is bbl material. I have no experience with any material other than Grenadilla and Rosewood. Of course, different materials resonate differently. Whether resin material bbls influence pitch is not something I can comment on.
Thanks for your thought.
regards
dennis
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jmsa
Date: 2004-12-20 15:42
Anyone have any opinions on the old design DEG barrels with the fins.
jmsa
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2004-12-20 22:04
William said:
"...could have also been a result of Gregs mouthpiece design. I have two of his models--Cicero Kaspar and Chedeville--and both mouthpieces play a few cents flater than my vintage Kaspar or Bay mouthpieces. They are great products, but I just need to use a slightly shorter barrel when I use them."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost all of the Kaspar and Bay mthpcs that I've played needed to either be pulled a mm or two at the barrel with the standard inverted taper barrel 66mm (Moennig or Chadash). That is why I and others have used the 67 or even 68mm barrels for the orig. Kaspar mthpcs to keep the overall, as well as the throats down.*
There were always exceptions to the rule and my own personal, original Kaspar mthpc that I've used to model my hand made Kaspar-styled mthpcs (both Cicero and Chicago) have had unusually good tuning ratios. With my Kaspar-styled mthpcs, the standard length 66mm barrel allows the Bb clarinet to play at 440 - 441. If one wants to play 442 and above, the 65 Bb barrel should be used. Same for my Chedeville styled mouthpieces. The original Chedevilles rarely played sharp as the Kaspars did.
*This of course does not take into consideration the age and brand of the clarinet being played or the overall pitch tendencies of the individual player.
Gregory Smith
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-12-21 01:21
(Disclaimer - I am the maker of the Power Barrel)
With its radical new design, - for better or worse - the speciality barrel that we produce (designed for projection and limited outdoor applications) is very tolerant of length due to the acoustic design parameters that emphasize and amplify the even harmonic frequency series of notes more so than the odd harmonic series characteristic of the clarinet physics.
The upshot of a lot of physics, and some physics that has not been written (or well understood) as yet is that the frequency response of the barrel design has a lot to do with the required length - modified of course by a given clarinet, mouthpiece, player combination. Barrels which, and I hate to use the words "dark" and "bright" without an explanation of my own frequency mapping of these characteristics, tend toward the "dark" are more dependent on length of the barrel for proper tuning characteristics than those on the "bright" end of the spectrum.
Taper of the barrel bore is a prime consideration in the equation as well as the mass and material of the barrel. Barrel taper being more important than material but the two interact in various ways. Morrie Backun could probably explain some of these interactions eloquently because of his exhaustive study of barrel taper and materials. The caveat of course that each barrel is a study of one since tiny variations in taper and interaction with all of the other variables contributing to tone come into play.
The Doctor
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
