 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Markus Wenninger
Date: 2004-12-20 05:42
Recently I attended a concert of choirmusic of 14th/15th century, up to Monetverdi before he turned homophone.It was all forms and structures of weird intervalls, absolutely great, madrigals mostly, the lyrics all about pathetic accusations of the disinterested lover, hurlings from cliffs and towertops because being unable to touch the lady etc - it was so stunning,really. Now this experience let the idea of composing such a form for a posttonal set of windplayers.
Can anyone tell me whether there´s a book titeled like "The Renaissance musical (choir) form,and how it works, in detail"?
Thank You already for Your contributions,
Markus
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-12-20 20:10
Renaissance musical form, hm, interesting. We have a group here "The Renaissance Players" who have been in operation for 35 years ... based at Sydney University. I'll ask their wonderful leader Winsome Evans, if she can shed some light onto this question. I know that Groves' Dictionary goes into Renaissance music in some depth, but I can't remember whether it provides analysis of form as such.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: David Oakley
Date: 2004-12-20 21:25
Markus,
I'm probably making a fool of myself recommending texts on music so someone as theoretically aware as your posts over the years have shown you to be, but here is where I would start in looking for material on Renaissance music:
Gustave Reese, Music in the Renaissance-- one of the Norton series of musical histories, with an excellent bibliography. It's around 50 years old, but still a good place to start.
Since you enjoyed "weird intervals," etc. I would also listen to the music of Carlo Gesualdo, especially the late books of madrigals and the Tenebrae services--very chromatic and dissonant for the period. The Tenebrae are readily available on CD from someplace like Amazon; I haven't seen the late madrigals in print since the Musical Heritage Society released a vinyl edition 10-20 years ago, but I haven't checked.
[There was a movement during the 1980s to do releases of individual Books of Madrigals (the equivalent of whole opus numbers) as arranged by the original composers. Unfortunately many of the madrigal collections I have seen lately are anthologies with many composers.]
I doubt that the standard books on Renaissance musical theory will be what you want--they tend to lean heavily on the example of Palestrina, while the sort of music in which you expressed an interest is from the period in which Renaissance form was in luxuriant decay.
That is about as much as I can remember at the moment--I'm away from my library, and this is not an area in which I've specialized.
Thanks,
David Oakley
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Author: David Oakley
Date: 2004-12-20 21:51
Markus,
An addition to the message I posted earlier. I have found a website devoted to renaissance music, www.carolinaclassical.com/rena.html,
which you may find informative.
There is a link on that site to a Gesualdo page, www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~rneckmag/gesualdo.html
where the composer's life and music are briefly discussed. The same site gives a short list of "avant-garde" madrical composers:
Cipriano de Rore (1516-1565)
Giaches de Wert (1535-1596
Luca Marenzio (1553-1599)
Carlo Gesualdo, Prince of Venosa (1564-1613)
Claudio Monteverdi (1567-1643).
Thanks,
David Oakley
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-12-20 22:02
David
The link (www.carolinaclassical.com/rena.html) is good, thank you, just what I've been searching for ... it's difficult to find credible information about Renaissance performance practice et cetera which is not about people dressing up in ruffled velvet and prancing around on wooden horses.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: Markus Wenninger
Date: 2004-12-21 06:11
diz, David,
Having thought already that all response I could get´d be "oh phew, h i m again" or inflamed protest about how out of the place completely my speculations were, You posted very solid and supportive information..![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif) it makes me indeed. I will wade through all this time after time, I am excited and can´t wait to get going on this "bunch of deconstructive woodwinds getting high on madrigals"-idea (the composition competition´s deadline where I plan to contribute this is Sept ´05, so I have to get gears going-). You know, there a moments in this renaissance avantgarde´s pieces where I literally can see the composers and players smiling contendedly to our ensemble´s performances and mutter "oh yes, we´ve had that already, pray, what´s so revolutionary about it then?"...
![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif) Markus
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Author: David Oakley
Date: 2004-12-21 13:38
Markus,
Your project has gotten me interested enough to do a brief bibliographical search on the music of the Late Renaissance. I won't pretend to have read all the books in the following list, but I think some of them may be relevant.
Richard Studing & Elizabeth Kruz, eds., Mannerism in art, literature, and music: a bibliography. Trinity University Press, 1979. [The musical radicalism of the late Renaissance is probably closely tied to the contempory Mannerist styles in painting and literature.]
Tim Carter, Music in Late Renaissance and Early Baroque Italy. Amadeus Press, 1992.
Peter M. Daly & John Manning, eds., Aspects of Renaissance and Baroque Symbol Theory, 1500-1700. AMS Press, 1999.
Bonnie J. Blackburn, Composition, Printing, and Performance: Studies in Renaissance Music. Ashgate, 2000.
Marco Bizzarini, Lucca Marenzio: the Career of a Musician Between the Renaissance and the Counter-Reformation. Ashgate, 2003.
Cristle Collins Judd, Reading Renaissance Music Theory: Hearing with the Eyes. Cambridge University Press, 2000.
Gay Tomlinson, Music in Renaissance Magic: Toward a Historiography of Others. University of Chicago Press, 1993.
Jan Larue, ed. Aspects of Medieval and Renaissance Music: A Birthday Offering to Gustave Reese. Norton, 1966.
Companion to Medieval and Renaissance Music. Schirmer, 1992.
Lloyd Ultan, Music Theory: Problems and Practices in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. University of Minnesota Press, 1977.
Thomas Christensen, ed. The Cambridge History of Western Musical Theory. Cambridge University Press, 2002.
Thanks,
David Oakley
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Author: David Oakley
Date: 2004-12-21 19:57
Markus,
A few more books for your bibliography:
Knud Jeppesen, Counterpoint: The Polyphonic Vocal Style of the Sixteenth Century. Prentice-Hall, 1939 [Very much based on the style of Palestrina.]
Knud Jeppesen, The Style of Palestrina and the Dissonance. Levin & Munksgaard, 1927.
Peter Schubert, Modal Counterpoint, Renaissance Style. Oxford University Press, 1999.
Susan McClary, Modal Subjectivities: Self-Fashioning in the Italian Madrigal. University of California Press, 2004.
Thanks,
David Oakley
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Author: Markus Wenninger
Date: 2004-12-21 21:53
David,
Your list is absolutely astounding - seems as if asked an expert on this. At least some of those books will be found in Berlin´s libraries, - impressive, really. Thank You for Your massive support, really,
Markus
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