 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: spike
Date: 2004-12-13 03:03
I am new to this board.
I played clarinet in high school, and now, about 30 years later, I bought an old Boosey and Hawkes Series 2-20 at an antiques shop. Can anyone tell me about this instrument? I wonder what kind of wood it is made of. The guy at the music store couldn't find information about this model in his book, so he says it must be at least 30 years old. The serial number is 194946. I had it re-conditioned locally, and I think it has a nice sound. I'm trying to figure out if it is worth further investment or not. I think it has some intonation problems - it seems to play sharp in the upper register. I'm planning on borrowing a tuner to get a better handle on the extent of this problem. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!
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Author: Bill
Date: 2004-12-13 03:34
I owned a 2-20. There are knowledgeable people here who can tell you the evolution of the 2-20 (I think it went through wood and resonite versions; David Spiegelthal [sp?] will know). It is a student quality instrument. It seems to me that it was a very good student instrument, however. It has much in common with the B&H 1010 (their professional clarinet), at least in the sound and quality at the top of the scale (creamy, warm) and how the clarinet blows (hard!).
Opinion? Well, I did not care for my 2-20. Perhaps it was just the one I had, but I found it hard to blow and stuffy compared to my French instrument at that time. I think my 1010 is also hgard to blow, but it is worth the effort!!!
If it's your first clarinet in a long time, and you come to love it and have an easy way with it, that's really worth something.
Good luck!
Bill.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-12-13 15:29
Your 2-20 was made in 1979, a decent intermediate clarinet, medium-large bore (.593" or 15.00 mm). Has two keywork features I like (the so-called "Reginald Kell keys"), the elongated lower r.h trill key and the "nail-file" l.h. F/C spatula. All these instruments really need to be excellent are tonehole undercutting (they come with 'straight' toneholes') and a bit of filing-down of the sliver keys and possibly the throat-A key, all of which are too fat and get in the way of the fingers. I've made such modifications to at least half a dozen 2-20s and similar Edgware and Series 8-10 models, and they have turned out to be very pleasant clarinets. The nice thing about all the B&H clarinets was the very high-quality wood they used --- I've seen very few cracks in them and they all look nice. The downside of almost all the models are the sloppy keywork, and sometimes poor-quality key metal and plating. I think they're worth investing some time and effort into, but I wouldn't want to play one in 'pure stock' condition.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2004-12-13 23:28
Spike,
The other thing to do absolutely is to check the specifications (internal size, bore size) of your mouthpiece. Because the B&H clarimnets have such large bores, your mouthpiece must match the bore. French mpcs won;'t do. I recommend a B&H or Pillinger mouthpiece (which you may be using already - ?).
Bill.
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Author: spike
Date: 2004-12-14 03:02
Hey, guys.....
Thank you for your thoughts. It means a lot to me to hear from knowledgeable third parties.
I think the B&H's unusually shaped right and left hand keys (trill and spatula) are very elegant looking, though the right hand key I find hard to play, somehow.
I just bought a Buffet B-45 mouthpiece and a Rovner ligature. Sounds like that might not be such a good match for my clarinet. Now that I'm learning more about my horn (and considering my intonation problems), I'm feeling the desire to move up to a professional grade clarinet, rather than invest a lot of money in this one. It's not because I will soon be headlining in a cabaret near you......I think it's just the thought of having a high quality instrument that won't work against me. I mean, why have something that is hard to blow, if I can find something that's easier to work with?
Any suggestions what I should look for? I hear a lot about Buffets (and I actually played a school-owned one in high school), but I hear very little about LaBlanc or Selmer.
I'd rather not spend $2K for a new R13 if I could help it, but I don't know what to take into consideration in buying a used instrument. I think I could scrape $1,500 together for a good instrument, if one can be found for that price. Again....any thoughts? Will my B-45 mouthpiece only work well with a Buffet?
And a final question: what the heck does IMHO stand for?
thanks, guys.....
spike
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Author: spike
Date: 2004-12-14 03:35
Fellas
Just after I posted my message, I came across the thread "Why do people love R 13s so much?" Oh my God.....
You can tell I'm a wet-behind-the ears newby here to ask you about Beffets in comparison to Selmers and LaBlancs, since this is such a hotly debated issue. Maybe I need to read a ton of these threads before I ask any more questions......
I guess the best thing I can do is go try a bunch of horns and see if there is one I like. But, being newly returned to the clarinet fold, I know I will need guidance. I'd hate to waste money or make a dumb purchasing error. It's just that I'm not taking lessons at the moment, and I don't know anybody in Detroit whose opinion I feel I can take to the bank. I'll start nosing around.,....
tks again
spike
tks again
spike
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-12-14 15:55
Side note to Bill: I've never had trouble playing standard-bore mouthpieces on B&H clarinets. But then again, at my level of expertise, it probably wouldn't matter if I played a garden hose with some holes punched in it. All seriousness aside, there are those who believe that mouthpiece bores must match that of the clarinet, and those who think that is nonsense --- I'm in the latter camp.
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2004-12-14 16:10
And since nobody answered Spike's easy question:
IMHO is just an e-mail type abbreviation for "In My Humble [yeah, right!] Opinion".
Like LOL (Laughing out loud), and a gazillion more in the same vein.
The hard question was "What's the Best Clarinet?" and I ain't gonna touch THAT one!
JDS
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Author: sbbishop
Date: 2004-12-14 21:30
"What's the best clarinet?"
That's an easy one. It's the clarinet you just spent all your money on!!
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Author: spike
Date: 2004-12-15 03:11
Thank you, one and all, for your support and interest.
I obviously don't know BBSpeak. Well, I DO know BTW, but IMHO just had me stumped.
Since I have just returned to playing after a LONG absence, I think the best course of action is to take a few lessons and see if I can get my teacher to guide me in getting an instrument that neither holds me back nor breaks the bank. A co-worker and clarinetist suggested that my intonation problems (consistently sharp in upper register) could be a result of a faulty embouchure rather than my instrument. Any thoughts about this?
Reading this board makes me aware of my ignorance on any number of music-related subjects. (Most of them, actually.) It's quite a blow, but I suppose being third chair in high school long ago doesn't exactly make one an expert on any subject except what a pain in the ass that second chair guy was........
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2004-12-16 01:18
Well, it COULD be your embouchure, but I highly doubt it. You said that the upper register is sharp? That would lead me to believe (if you are indeed talking about the clarinet register) that the clarinet has its faults. Generally as a "second-timer" the higher notes would tend to be flat because of a lax, not-worked-up-and-used-to-playing, embouchure. On the other hand, if you find that you are closing down to hard on the reed/mouthpiece, then it could be your embouchure. Try moving your jaw up and down (bending the pitch) while holding a C (two bars above the staff). That seems to be a good way of finding out one's limits when it comes to tuning some of those notes (at least I've found that helped me!). Good luck. btw (you said you knew that one!), r13's can cost as little as $1000 but, like you said, as much as $2000 (reasonably). Be on the lookout, they're out there cheap and of good quality if that's what you're really interested. I can't speak for LeBlanc, Selmer, Yamaha, etc. because I don't have any experience on those horns.
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Author: milo8295
Date: 2004-12-19 19:21
I am new to the board also. However, I couldn't resist responding to your posting. I played clarinet in high school (1st chair, and competed in solo competition as well). However, got my old "Selmer" back after 20+ yrs of nieces/relatives using it to learn to play in their own school bands. Anyway, I enjoyed getting it back (my brother had it stuffed in a closet for several yrs.).
Recently though, within the past month, someone I work very closely with handed me her high school clarinet which she used in the early 80s (she got it back from her sister who had it stuffed in a closet also for 20+yrs.). It's a Boosey and Hawkes wood instrument, series 2-20, and because it was used so little, it's essentially in mint condition. It's mine to keep, and I can only say that I love the instrument. I love the "spatula" and the "trill" keys ... really neat features. It plays very well (for me, anyway). I use a Gigliotti "standard" mouthpiece with a Vandoren Optimum ligature which come with 3 different pressure plates.
I'm enjoying my instrument so much that I had to share my enthusiasm with you, somewhat in contradiction to some of the other postings I've read that have replied to yours. Best wishes to you whatever your final choice of clarinet might be .... larry
lrg
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Author: Clare
Date: 2004-12-20 18:56
Spike,
Don't give up on your B&H yet - as many of the other posters have said, they're good clarinets and with a bit of work and sorting yourself a mouthpiece that suits you, you could have great fun with it WITHOUT spending half your life-savings on a new instrument.
I learnt on a B&H Regent (an older resonite cousin of the 2-20) and, while I eventually moved on (now play Yamaha Customs - love them to pieces, though still really miss the "nail file" key on my Regent), I really enjoyed that instrument and learnt a huge amount playing it. And my current Eb clarinet is a B&H Imperial - seriously lovely (though, alas, without the key-improvements that David described, which are a seriously good feature).
Whether or not you susbscribe to the "large bore mouthpiece for large bore clarinet" theory, there are certainly a wide range of mouthpieces and some will be better than others at suiting the combination of your clarinet and your own embouchure jaw/blowing style etc. So it's worth experimenting to find a combination that suits you.
And worth making sure you have the right reed strength as well, to suit your mouthpiece, as that can make a difference, especially to how easy or hard it feels to play.
Could it be your embouchure? Yes. Worth spending a bit of time with a tuner seeing how different degrees of relaxation can affect your tuning - it can be hard getting back into that after you've been away from playing for a while.
But most importantly, get in there an enjoy playing again - especially if you have a clarinet whose sound you like. And enjoy the Bulletin Board too - there are some wonderful guys who post here whose wisdom we all learn from.
Clare
BTW: Thanks for asking about "IMHO" - it took me ages to work that out and now, thanks to John's post, I know what "LOL" means - hurray!
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