 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ron Wise
Date: 2000-01-25 22:57
I just found this bulletin board and I am excited. Maybe someone can help me again. I have always played classical and band music. I have always admired people who could improvise and I have tried for years unsuccessfully. A few months ago, however, I discovered the Dixieland Jam for Clarinet with CD accompaniment and it has turned my world around. It is EXACTLY what I need. I get terrific sounds and impress everybody and am even starting to improvise a little but the great thing is I don't have to in order to sound great. The score is interesting enough without it. I have performed all these songs and I want MORE. I have searched the internet and stores thoroughly and spent a huge amount of money on books I cannot use. They are either too easy and boring or require improvisation I am not capable of. I am working on the "Patterns for Improvisation" series without much progress. Dixieland Solo Tracks is way too difficult. Does anyone know of a book of songs with CD accompaniment that are real crowd pleasers, exciting to play and encourage but don't require improvisation skills? I would really like a volume two of Dixieland Jam but can't find it. Thanks
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Author: mike
Date: 2000-01-26 02:24
Where did you get the Dixiland book you have Ron I would be
interested in it myself.
Mike
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Author: Sean
Date: 2000-01-26 13:24
You've echoed my sentiments exactly with regard to the Dixieland Jam CD. I've just returned to the clarinet after a 20 yr hiatus and I am in the process of re-learning everything. I have no desire to play classical music nor do I have any aspirations to play to any audience outside of family. Strictly speaking, I am in this for the fun and the Dixieland CD has added a whole new dimension to this fun. While I can read music, I take greater pleasure in playing what I hear rather than what I see. With the Dixieland CD I have an instant "band" with whom to raise the roof. The "boys in the band" are great at filling in what I leave out and they even let me try new things without complaint. Its great! The tunes are catchy too, so even my kids can enjoy my playing. I am not advocating the sale of this product, specifically, but if you do want a break from playing alone, sheet music with accompanying CD's are a great way to enjoy the feeling of playing with a group. Unfortunately there is no social contact between band members but maybe someone will develop an interactive product. Ah yes, the possibilites are endless . . .
Sean
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Author: Ron Wise
Date: 2000-01-26 14:24
Mike,
I spotted it at a generic music store in a mall but I have seen it listed at www.ClarinetSpot.com under "Pop, Rock, Jazz and country Music for clarinet" If you don't find it let me know and I will get you more information such a publisher, etc. They have a lot of other great sounding titles but I can use only books with CD accompaniment because I don't have a piano player or band available and I am nervous about ordering any more because the ones I have gotten so far have been either beginner band level (even thought it shows a level 2 or 3 in the catalog) or the score is full of empty measures with chord symbols and you are expected to improvise those parts. Does anybody have experience with "30 Cool Ways to Play the Blues" or "The Music of Henry Mancini, Plus One for Clarinet" or "Cole Porter Classics" or "Gerry Mulligan Play-along collection" or "The Music of Free flight"? These are all level 3 or 4 which is good but do they "require" improvisation and and are they interesting arrangements? I also like Gospel songs but I need real arrangements and not just the melody line transposed for clarinet. If you know of any please let me know. Thanks
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-01-26 17:09
There's another book published by Alfred. It doesn't have 'real' songs, but it does deal with the clarinet's role.
Note that there is only so much of this stuff availble. Sooner or later you have to start playing by ear. It's much easier than you think, and quite liberating. I'm getting ready to put a website online to help people explore this, but you don't have to wait.
Get a good record and learn to play the songs. You don't have to learn the clarinet parts right away. Admittedly, some of them are very hard. But you can learn the melodies to the songs, which will help you immensely in figuring out what the clarinet player is doing.
If you need a specific record, try this one. Pete Fountain: New Orleans all-starts. This was a special-occasion group with two players on each instrument, but the songs are standard tunes in standard keys, and there are a lot of good clarinet solos to listen to and imitate. I spend hours with it as a teenager.
BTW, one of you guys said that you were doing Patterns for Improvisation. Is that the Oliver Nelson book, or the Hal Leonard CD book?
Good luck and keep at it!
Allen
http://members.tripod.com/allencole
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-01-26 18:09
Why dont you-all get up a Dixie or German-Band group, takes from 4 or 5 on up to 10 or 12 to cover parts and rhythm. I have an old set [8] entitled Dixieland Beat, arr. Zep Meisner, Belwin-Mills Pub! Melville, NY, 11746 &2 each!!Easy to play as are several G-B sets, Hungry Five etc, lots of fun and opportunities to play, usually free. Don
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Author: Ron Wise
Date: 2000-01-26 20:09
Don Berger,
I am not sure what you said. You have this music for sale? What is usually free?
J. Butler,
Thanks for the suggesion, I will try it.
Allen cole,
The "Patterns for Improvisation" series is by Frank Mantooth published by Hal Leonard with CD. It includes "From the Beginning", "Movin' on to the Blues" and then four books of Jazz Standards Play-Along collections. I have been working on the first two and they are fun but I am afraid I am not making much progress on being able to improvise. Does anyone know if the four Jazz Standards books in this series have at least the melody written out or is it just a bunch of measures with chord symbols? Allen, everybody I know who can says its easier than you think. I guess I have a learning disability. I am a skilled clarinetist and play sax in a professional dance band but after much trying I cannot play by ear. I suspect my teachers took the wrong approach when I was beginning 40+ years ago when I was only taught technical skills without any ear training, or listening skills. I can play in-tune but can't play "a tune" without laborious memorization. Thanks for the encouragement, however, I will keep trying. I think I may have that Pete Fountain album.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-01-26 22:36
No, just suggesting inexpensive, available Dixie and German band music for small groups.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2000-01-26 22:54
This is great stuff! I always thought guitar players knew a great deal more about the structure of music than I did:-)
My adult clarinet playing experiences have been driving me more and more to try to play by ear. I'm still very poor at it, mainly because I know that I can sight read a tune a lot faster than I could ever learn to play it by ear, so I give up too easily. Then I could kill myself when I look at the music and see it's made up of no more than a half dozen or so different notes, with lots of repetition. I'm talking about folk and pop, etc. Sometimes (by myself), I'll play the chords "open" as they are written above the melody, then play the melody, bar by bar or phrase by phrase, just to teach myself to "hear" better. It doesn't translate into immediately greater ability to play by ear, but I'm hoping that in the long run it will help. At one time, I "couldn't sing". Suddenly, the other day, I found myself humming a tune I had played many times in a manner that was recognizable to me and others!
It has been said that folk music (and, by extension,pop), is intended to be played by ear; folk musicians could not create too much complexity because then they could not transmute it to others. Even if it sounds complex, like Balkan stuff, it's not; it's just based on different scales.
I eagerly await more on Allen Cole's site.
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Author: ClarinetQween
Date: 2000-01-27 01:16
Ron-
I used this book last year for a school talent show and I plan on using it again tis year for the school talent show again !! It is wonderful!!
-ClarinetQween:)
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-01-27 05:40
Yes, I have copies of the first two Mantooth books. If you're a true beginner to improvising, that patterns book can be good to loosen you up and give you some ideas.
So much is in overcoming the fear of it. You should definitely work in that book and in Movin' On to the Blues.
Just don't get too worried about knowing a particular scale for each chord and that type of thing. Beginners working in the Aebersold books sometimes get the wrong idea and swamp themselves in scales.
Listen to a lot of this genre. The Dukes of Dixieland seems to be a really reliable group. Another recording that I really love is 'Clarinet Marmalade' from Academy Sound & Video. It features 25 tracks, each of a different jazz clarinetist.
Also, a strong recommendation for Benny Goodman. He originally made his name playing with outfits like Ben Pollack and Red Nichols. Also, his licks and improvising strategy are easy to follow and he rarely failed to sound great.
One more clarinet player that EVERYONE should hear. Lester Young, the famous tenor saxophonist from the old Basie band. Lester sounded so great playing clarinet on 'Blue and Sentimental' that he went into the studio to cut some marvelous sides with the Kansas City Six. This was a more updated version of the New Orleans style and instrumentation, and the playing is universally fabulous. Check out his beautiful solos on Pagin' the Devil, Countless Blues, and I Want a Little Girl.
Okay, I'll shut up now...
Allen
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-01-27 06:06
Thank you for the kind comments on my website, Steve. The main hangup with going online now are some issues with imbedding downloadable files in FrontPage, and with my need to master both Finale and Acrobat.
On the process of playing by ear, I think that quitting too soon is the main problem. You can learn to be a great ear player if you just spend as much time trying as the guitar guys do.
I suggest not getting too fancy at first. The major scale is more than sufficient as a cookie cutter to guide your fingers. Play the scale from top to bottom in the right rhythm and you've started 'Joy to the World.'
Anything you can sing, you can learn to play. If you can think of your scale in terms of its elements (1-2-3-4-5-6-7), you can get to the point of simply THINKING about the tune and rattle it right off. It just takes practice.
Suggestion: If you do scale/arpeggio warmups on your horn, then take an extra couple of minutes and try to play a simple song in whatever key your warmups were in. Thinking in terms of scale elements obviously keeps you in that diatonic mold, but that's where most songs are anyway.
I think that a lot of 'classically-trained' people fall in a trap trying to think in terms of the intervals between the notes. This is particularly true if they cut their teeth on something like the Hindemith musicianship book. (But how much Hindemith will they ever play by ear?)
Most pop musicians view the notes in terms of their relationship to the tonal center (root note of the key). Over time, you can develop an extremely strong feel for this and it marries well with the scale/arpeggio skills that you have on your horn.
Try learning some songs from my list on this page:
http://members.tripod.com/allencole/play_ear.htm
They are all in C major, and there are no accidentals.
Let me know how it goes.
Allen
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-01-27 09:17
I've been looking for that Lester Pearson disk for years. Any reference?
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-01-27 15:00
I've been following this discussion quite intensely and would like to thank all who resonded to Ron's question. I've been around Dixieland music all my life, but can't play it. Definaly gonna try some of stuff mentioned here.
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Author: Ron Wise
Date: 2000-01-27 17:28
Allen, you are too modest and I am a little slow I guess. I didn't realize until your response to Steve that you were suggesting there was really something important to me on another web site and it was yours. I can play those simple little tunes you suggest, sometimes even in different keys. It is the next step that has me stopped. If they are any longer or more complicated than a simple tune I have known for decades I am stumped after one wrong note because that one wrong note seems to cause the rest of the tune to vanish from my head and I have to start all over. This is NOT fun. After hitting this brick wall for years I gave it up. My kids, on the other hand, can play a tune along with the radio after an hour or so fiddling around to find out the fingerings on any new instrument they pick up. The quality of the notes suck but darned if they aren't the correct ones. This is very frustrating for PaPa. Thanks to your site and the Dixieland Jam book I am trying again, in private!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-01-27 18:19
Didn't we used to call the "bad" notes BLUE, or "flatted fifths" in the old dance/combo bands? Don
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Author: John Dean
Date: 2000-01-27 20:29
Hi Allen,
Great ideas on your Web Site.Nice to find you again.Remember me and the old Jazzbeat days? Did your band get to play those Oliver Nelson charts I sent you? Catch you later.
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-01-28 05:50
John! Great to hear from you! We got to fool around with a few things, but those charts made some fascinating reading. I was knocked out to see Alf Clausen from The Simpsons there in that Berklee class.
I've been haunting the bulletin boards lately because I just got back from a road job in Europe and am currently unemployed other than teaching my private students. Too bad we didn't hit England--I'd love to have met you in person.
My major project these days is working on some web-based help for students who want to play by ear, and online support for students studying in the Master Theory Workbooks.
The web page has a lot of stuff on it, but I haven't found a way to embed the files that the kids need to download. I need to provide some things in Acrobat and some MIDI's.
Drop me an email sometime. I'm now drfligo@erols.com.
Allen
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Author: Allen Cole
Date: 2000-01-28 08:56
Well, the good news is that you CAN play by ear. You proved that with the simple tunes that you did from the web page.
As for more complicated tunes, can you give me some examples? America the Beautiful, for example, has only one accidental, but it's a sharp 'one' and that's hard for beginners to hear.
Let's look at a couple of quick points...
1. It's okay to make mistakes. (the sooner you get them out of the way, the better!) This is something we hack at.
2. Even if you are experienced at this, you have to be familiar enough with the song to be comfortable singing it. (I don't mean that you have to sing it beautifully--just able to hit the pitches...kinda like Rosanne Barr singing the Star Spangled Banner <g>)
3. Guessing at what buttons to push can be a major distraction. When you keep hitting the deadly clam, try the following: Play what you know, and sing the note that you need. Then just match the pitch on your instrument.
You'll go through several stages of ability. You're already well into the first stage if you can play the really simple stuff in multiple keys. Knowing your scales is a major advantage. Then, you'll be able to sing the song to yourself, and think of what scale elements the notes are. In the final stage (I can only presune it's final) you're very comfortable with basic scale skills in all 12 keys. Each scale element has a 'feel' to it, and you are able to apply what you hear to your fingers with a minimum of thought.
Be patient. I doubt that your kids did it overnight. I know I didn't.
Allen
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-01-28 19:21
If I plug in members.tripod.com I get a whole buncha sites, but I can't find an allencole site. If I plug in the two addresses as listed above, nuthin'. What am I doing wrong?
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Author: Tom Quick
Date: 2000-01-29 05:24
Pick up a copy of "Benny Goodman Composer Artist" published by Leonard, and a couple of CD's of the Benny Goodman Sextet, or Charlie Christian collections. The clarinet parts are note for note on many selections - AC/DC, Gilly, etc. Play along with Benny ca 1939.
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The Clarinet Pages
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