 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dm
Date: 2004-12-09 20:57
Hi. I'm new, and I have questions!
I played clarinet for ten years (on the worst little Yamaha hand-me-down EVER--but I loved it) and gave it up when I discovered theater. I'd been thinking about buying a new clarinet when I came across several metal clarinets on ebay and became fascinated...this summer I had the chance to hear a metal clarinet in a jazz band and became even more entranced. I would really like to own one. I guess my upper limit for price would be $500 for a clarinet, new, used, metal, or not.
A few things trouble me:
a) are metal clarinets suitable only for jazz? is the sound quality so different on a metal clarinet that more classical pieces sound...off?
b) can a metal clarinet be maintained by anyone who works with clarinets, or will I have to find a more specialized technician?
c) are metal clarinets difficult to maintain?
d) is there a chance of finding a metal clarinet somewhere other than ebay? I live in Chicago and I've had a hard time finding instrument stores in the city that aren't very, very expensive...all the same, I'd like to hold and test any clarinet before I buy it.
e) what sort of mouthpiece should I look into getting were I to buy a metal clarinet? likewise, what kind of reeds?
f) Is a metal clarinet impractical for a person returning to the clarinet? I feel like I should really be looking into a wood clarinet to improve on my old one (which was plastic), but I'm not really planning on joining any symphonies. Would starting first with a more professional instrument be better before I switch to a metal one?
I apologize for the length. I guess I just need a lot of advice. Thanks.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-09 21:25
Each of us can only relate his experience and opinions so don't expect a consensus: I have a couple of metal clarinets and one plays acceptable well. I question if you really saw a metal clarinet in the jazz band....I expect it was a soprano sax!!? Although there are one or more persons on the board who play metal and love them there are far more who play non-metal. Maybe you should be considering a sax if your interest is mainly jazz.
Bob Draznik
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Author: madvax
Date: 2004-12-10 01:15
dm, These are very good questions. Here are some related threads regarding metal clarinets:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=71501&t=71448
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=83162&t=83150
> a) are metal clarinets suitable only for jazz?
> is the sound quality so different on a metal clarinet that more
> classical pieces sound...off?
No. In fact some metal clarinets have a darker sound than wood or plastic.
A good quality metal clarinet, with a decent mouthpiece and artist, cannot be distinguished from a wooden one.
> b) can a metal clarinet be maintained by anyone who works with
> clarinets, or will I have to find a more specialized technician?
Any clarinet technician can work on a metal clarinet. However, many will refuse to work on "cheap" metal clarinets, just as they refuse to work on certain types of "cheap" asian clarinets. If you have difficulty finding someone to work on metal clarinets, just ask the bulletin board for recommendations.
> c) are metal clarinets difficult to maintain?
Nope. About the same as any clarinet.
> d) is there a chance of finding a metal clarinet somewhere
> other than ebay? I live in Chicago and I've had a hard time
> finding instrument stores in the city that aren't very, very
> expensive...all the same, I'd like to hold and test any clarinet
> before I buy it.
Try the "Wanted" section in the classifieds on this web site. Ask for a trial period. Be prepared to pay for the shipping costs. By the way, some sellers on eBay will also allow a trial period.
> e) what sort of mouthpiece should I look into getting were I to
> buy a metal clarinet? likewise, what kind of reeds?
Same guidelines as any other clarinet.
> f) Is a metal clarinet impractical for a person returning to the
> clarinet? I feel like I should really be looking into a wood
> clarinet to improve on my old one (which was plastic), but I'm
> not really planning on joining any symphonies. Would starting
> first with a more professional instrument be better before I
> switch to a metal one?
A metal clarinet is fine for a returning player. The key is to get one of "high quality" and avoid one of the many "cheap" metal clarinets. As with wooden or plastic clarinets, metal clarinets have a wide variety of good and bad playing characteristics based on the make and model.
Review the related links I have provided above. They contain recommendations for professional and intermediate models of metal clarinets. Keep in mind, all metal clarinets are not created equal. If you have tried one, you haven't tried them all.
Enjoy your search.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2004-12-10 01:16
i have several metal clarinets and use them all the time for big band and german band and dixieland playing. they have a little brighter sound than wood but my best one (a selmer) can play classical music and if you closed your eyes -no one could tell it was metal. you must know what you are getting before you buy one as there are a lot of bad ones out there. ebay is by far the best place to find one. best ones (in my experience) are betoney,conn,noblet and the silver king. any one you get on ebay will in all likeyhood need a complete rebuild job but any good clarinet man can do the job. good hunting.i saw a silver king on ebay today for 400$
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-12-10 03:05
[ Please conduct private transactions off-line. Thanks - GBK ]
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Author: dm
Date: 2004-12-10 03:57
thank you all very much for your advice, and for the links to the previous posts. It sounds like this will have to become an obsession for me.
Happy clarinetting, one and all.
(BobD it really was a metal clarinet, I chatted with the player after--I believe it was a noblet. it sounded wonderful!)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-10 04:08
To my knowledge there are no "good" metal Bb soprano clarinets being manufactured today and the ones that are typically available are fairly old. As a result the "rebuild" that the typical eBay one will require will be comparatively extensive vis a vis a wood or plastic one. Afficianados of metal clarinets are willing to spend what it takes to secure an acceptable horn including....usually.....replating. One that I have had a gold lacquer finish that was in horrible looking shape. Removing lac. from a metal clarinet is a job for a pro as far as I'm concerned....unless you are not too fussy.
In my opinion you have to really be committed to metal clarinets to play one regularly as the cost of restoration will probably be significantly higher than a wood one.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-12-10 05:07
Sorry GBK...I didn't feel like it was an actual transaction...
It was off-topic, however...
Katrina
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-10 14:27
I've owned one metal clarinet. I bought it on eBay and had it completely overhauled. It sounded pretty nice and wasn't too difficult to play. I didn't keep it because I was into buying and selling at that time. My fellow clarinettists loved to pass it around and play it.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-12-10 21:16
I've played old Selmer metal horns that were the equal of any other soprano. However, the trick was to ensure that they were in proper working order. Most metal clarinets have been abandoned for many years, and in order to "get one up to speed", there's going to be an up front expense that has to be paid.
I just borrowed the horns that were tried (and kept them in pristine condition, so someone else spent the money to make them whole again. So, the only way that I got to find out that they were as good as my Series 9s was to pass that expense onto someone else.
Actually owning one would have meant that I would have had to foot the bill for the overhaul. And, I have never seen a significant reason that would justify doing that when I already had perfectly serviceable wood horns already in hand. And, I would suspect that most of us are in that frame of mind as well.
So, metal clarinets are largely treated as junk because few have the inclination to bring the old ones up to a "full" state of repair. And, since there are few such horns, the opinions developed when playing the rest continue to be influenced by the "junk" condition. Sort of a chicken and the egg problem, if you will.
In any event, I give the horn only about 10% of the total, with the reed and mouthpiece another 15% or so. Most of what "makes a difference" is located just north of the mouthpiece. Spending time perfecting that element (through practice) is far more rewarding than fiddling around with 25% of the total picture...
By the way, I've seen one metal alto clarinet for sale on eBay. Has anyone every seen a non-Hovenagel bass clarinet made of metal?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-12-11 00:56
"c) are metal clarinets difficult to maintain?"
In my view they have two unique problems.
1. They have soldered tone holes. It is common such soldering to part partially around a tone hole and leak. To resolder a tone hole well it needs to be removed and the surfaces thoroughly cleaned.
The heat involved with resoldering is likely to have a significant weakening effect on the probably already compromised soldering of the neighbouring tone holes. This can lead to a very expensive can of worms. The soldering seems to deteriorate with age/use. Perhaps that is because of the galvanic action between the solder and the neighbouring metal, assisted by the presence of electrolyte (moisture and saliva)
2. Unless they are double-skinned, they are very weak and bend extraordinarily easily. When they are bent, &/or straightened, adjustments are compromised throughout the instrument, and there is a high likelihood of tone hole soldering parting.
Perhaps it is for these reasons that they are not in common use.
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Author: JoeMich
Date: 2004-12-11 16:12
In response to Gordon (NZ):
My first metal clarinet was a non-descript "CSO" that my parents bought for me in 1936. In 1942, I upgraded to a "Silver King". This served me very well and was considered 'professional grade' at that time. Since then, I've owned and played many others, including 3 Silver Kings. In fact, I'm looking at a Silver King as I write this. During this span of years, (1936 - 2004), the only maintenance required on my metal clarinets has been the same as my wood ones: pads, corks, adjustments. No bent bodies, no tone holes/posts requiring resoldering.
Just play 'em, oil pivots lightly, and lots of TLC ...... metal as well as wood.
Joe.
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Author: Karen
Date: 2004-12-11 18:21
My god! This is all very ineresting! I had never even head of metal clarinets until now! What do they look like? Are they like soprano saxes? I cant picture them at all! I woudn't imagine that they'd sound as nice as wooden clarinets.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-11 20:28
They look like a thinner shorter version of a sop sax. Yes they CAN sound as nice as....
Bob Draznik
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Author: madvax
Date: 2004-12-11 21:45
Attachment: betall.jpg (36k)
Karen wrote:
> What do they look like?
I have attached a picture of a Bettoney Silva-Bet. This is a professional model instrument, with silver plating. Please note the heavy barrel. The barrel is adjusted by turning the top portion, which lengthens or shortens the barrel.
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