 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2004-12-07 12:34
Hi all. Ok so I replaced the last troublesome Bb RC Prestige I bought with a new one of the same model. One thing i noticed about all 14 instruments that I tried that was that they were all considerably sharp on the clarion C and D. I think I already know the answer to this question but I will ask to make sure - Is it in fact the resistance in new instruments that makes these notes on the sharp side. I used to have to lip them down on my old clarinets but it was never as difficult to do so...I guess because they were blown in and free-blowing. I have noticed my new A has become a bit more free as it has been played in and this has made tuning this notes a little easier. I'm just wondering if it is a common occurence, and why is it that these 2 notes are always so sharp? Thanks. Hoping the new instrument will free up soon...
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-07 13:27
I think it all goes back to adjustments....
Bob Draznik
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Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2004-12-07 14:36
>>>>I think I already know the answer to this question but I will ask to make sure - Is it in fact the resistance in new instruments that makes these notes on the sharp side?<<<<
I hope the answer you already know is "NO."
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-12-07 14:38
I think he's saying -- correct me if I'm wrong -- that the perceived resistance and possibly even the sharpness of the particular notes should be correctable with some mechanical adjustments.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-07 21:05
Perhaps a trip to someone like the Brannens is in order. Mention the particular notes that are sharp and any other problems. Perhaps a tone hole needs to be opened a bit, or other minor adjustments. I know it's expensive--but it's worth it in the long run. After all, you can't afford (or maybe you can) to keep trading instruments all the time--especially expensive ones. I agree it's probably a simple problem, but needs some professional help.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-07 23:03
If your instrument appears stuffy maybe it needs some adjustments. The cost to ship it from Austrailia to Brannens won't be much. But...just maybe there's somebody downunder who can do it for you.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2004-12-07 23:30
No its not stuffy, its a very nice even instrument. It is just a little resistant around the break (clarion D,C and B on the break - which is normal right?) I'm just wondering if these notes will become easier to adjust with the lips as the instrument is played in and frees up a bit. I don't think I should be sending it to the Brannens or anyone until it is played in.
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Author: Pete
Date: 2004-12-08 00:30
Undercutting tone holes or removing any material should generally be a last resort repair.
When I say adjusting, I am refering to the coordination of keys. An example is the coordination between the EB and FC keys closing at the same time.
By regulating, I am refering to the opening of the key above the tone hole. There is no constant between players and repairmen with these terms, that is why I want to clarify.
Most new instruments need some voicing work done on them so they speak well for the particular player-how they blow, how much finger presure they use and so on.
First, the pads have to be perfectly level, meaning they seat evenly all the way around the tone hole with light pressure. You cannot adjust unlevel pads. Also, you want pads that are flat. Ballooned pads have a horrible effect on the tonal out put of a clarinet.
When the leveling is done, then the adjusting can take place. Critical adjustments are the EB with the FC and the bridge keys.
Then, finally the regulating or key height can be set. This is where you can make a fine instrument stuffy and out of tune, or you can set it so the instrument sings so well the player can feel the vibrations in his diaphram and chest even at the most pppp sound levels.
I really suggest you have a fine technician set up the instrument for you. It should not cost that much and you will not believe what a difference it can make in making your clarinet come alive.
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-12-08 08:22
On the actual question of blowing in an instrument, how sure are we that this process does occur? There is well documented scepticism about "blowing out". What about looking critically at the idea of blowing in. Is this just an effect whereby the player gets more used to the instrument? If not, and something actually happens to the instrument, what is it that happens and how does it have the effect it has?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-12-08 10:10
"....Is it in fact the resistance in new instruments...."
"...I guess because they were blown in and free-blowing. .."
"It is just a little resistant around the break (clarion D,C and B on the break - which is normal right?) "
In my humble opinion and experience, your notions are quite wrong.
1. A new clarinet definitely does not need blowing in.
2. Well-adjusted new instruments do not have excessive resistance.
3. Almost every new clarinet, even professional models, needs adjustment to the pad alignment with tone holes for (all or most of) the normally-open keys.
3. The most noticeable effect of poor adjustment is poor response (is that a synonym for resistance?) and other effects just over 'the break'
4. Insufficient venting is also a VERY common condition for new instruments, probably partly because relatively low quality, squishy pads are being used by most manufacturers, probably in an effort to cheaply accommodate poor adjustment of key cup alignment. To their eternal shame!
5. Expert adjustment easily corrects these phenomena.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-12-08 14:25
with alot of new clarinets there is a tendency to find them either resistant or very unresponsive...depends on what is meant.
As to the way the instrument tunes as much of this has to do with the way the clarinet has been set up or the mouthpiece of the player works. Are you a few cents high or 25+?
When we talk about tuning I am always wondering just how much players on the BB are measuring or using as a guide...a few cents high is adjustable but if you are way above then it can be just as much your playing tendencies....
New clarinets in my experience are much trickier in the throat register...alot of this has to do with the way the resistance of the new wood works...yes a fine repairman can do much to alleviate some of this perception...but I also feel a new clarinet definitely needs a break in period like an automobile or a reed.
I also feel newer instruments are more susceptible to expansion...the corks can cause an awful lot of trouble and generally swell to such a point when playing they will lead to a barrell or bell getting stuck on.
A barrell that expands with the cork causing a pressure point in this area of the clarinet can lead to cracks, but also the perception the clarinet is "tight" or resistant".
This kind of expansion is natural because the wood is newer and is in my opinion much more alive to swelling then an older broken in clarinet...
David Dow
Post Edited (2004-12-08 14:29)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-08 14:59
You might fix the problem with a Chadash or Moennig barrel. That helped my Prestige a lot.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-12-08 19:56
The stuck barrel is far more likely to be because the timber is jamming., rather than the cork.
Perhaps the breaking in period you refer to is how long it takes for you to wear away this jamming timber. a good technician can easily correct the fit. In my humid but non-extreme climate, this is necessary with almost all new wooden clarinets. That is part of the adjustment process.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-12-10 00:49
Here in Canada the weather (humidity) drops in NOVEMBER and stays cool until about early May....so weather is a pretty big factor.
David Dow
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