 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: seanj85
Date: 2004-12-06 03:53
Hi all. I wanted to get the opinions of professional musicians, college students, and those who just like giving their opinions on what they think I should do with my life. =)
First, a little background. I'm 28 years old and have been in music programs since I was 11. I started on clarinet, changed to saxophone after 2 years and stuck with that through junior college. I was fairly good and even earned first chair in a regional clinic in high school. I also picked up the oboe and played in my junior college's symphonic band for 2 years. I also play a little flute and piano and have sung with a critically acclaimed chorus in Boston. Needless to say, I think I have enough talent to pursue a career in music....at least I HAD enough. Have I waited too long though?
I basically stopped playing any instrument after junior college because I chose to study astronomy and physics in senior college......WHAT WAS I THINKING??? Anywho, I lacked the passion and aptitude to pursue that subject as a career even though I got my pretty degree. Four years of corporate America followed, and I can now feel my soul leaking out through my shoes.
So what I'm saying here is at the ripe old age of 28 :D with no music degree, clarinet ensemble experience or lifetime of practice, would I be insane to try to pursue clarinet performance as a career? I know it would be extremely difficult, and all you music graduates and professional types out there would have an advantage over me. The fact is that when I ask myself what I love most of all the answer is invariably music. The sound of an orchestra playing transports my mind to a place of wonder, and I'd love to be a part of that.
I've had clarinet lessons as recently as a few months ago, and the teacher said he thought I had excellent potential. If this isn't such a crazy idea, would it be recommended that I go to a music school first, and would it even be possible to get into one? I don't want to financially ruin myself in pursuit of a fool's dream, but I would like opinions on the feasibility of such an idea. I've been telling myself for a few years that I've waited too long and can't expect to succeed as a performer this late in the game. Is that even true?
Please, I welcome opinions, advice, scorn, etc. Just be nice. =)
Sean
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2004-12-06 05:23
A typical orchestral audition: 1 opening, 85 or more applicants most of whom are great players. These are not good odds for someone in your position. Perhaps a career in music education could be a more obtainable option. IMO, the music education field is in desperate need of someone who truly loves music. It can be very rewarding to ignite a passion for music in someone else.
As far as your age is concerned, I was in college with people your age. I don't think it would be a problem.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-12-06 05:31
Hi, Sean:
You state that you've taken lessons recently. And your teacher thought you had potential. For what? Are you taking clarinet lessons now? Another instrument, (instruments)? Do you play music at all now, or do you just listen and long to participate?
As far as choosing a career, staying on track and persuing a goal... you don't have a glowing history. However, I know lots of folks with similar backgrounds to yours who changed goals (and succeeded by the way), most of whom weren't hindered by the age factor at all; but there certainly were other considerations. It's no one's business here to inquire into your personal circumstances and it wouldn't matter much anyway -- you know where you are better than anyone else.
I wouldn't advise someone to make a major change if they're less than ten years away from a good retirement plan. Otherwise, you're the best judge of your inclinations, ambitions, and goal-oriented determination and last but certainly not least, financial means.
Best wishes to you, Sean. It's not an easy thing you're considering. Do you have someone close to you who's supportive and encouraging? That may well be the most important factor of all.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-12-06 05:38
If you want to study music, there's no reason that you shouldn't. As stated above, a symphony seat is a tough goal, but I have managed to have an okay career without one. I've played clarinet in German bands, Dixieland bands, and now even a Western band. Lots of theatre pit work, also. On sax, lots of rock band and big band activity along with shows. Also, lots of teaching.
There are certainly things that you can do, but you have to be very open minded about what you may end up doing.
And you WILL have to practice. Developing your ear is much of the key to being versatile, and your experience in choral singing will help a lot in this area.
To me, the big test is that of whether formal study and practice will take the fun out of it for you. If it doesn't, then maybe this IS your field. I'll also second the idea that education is a good area to be pursuing.
Allen Cole
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Author: seanj85
Date: 2004-12-06 06:03
I recently moved to a new city so I'm not currently taking lessons, nor am I playing with any group. I haven't even been able to find a good coffee shop yet. Let me touch of some of the points made thus far.
It's true I don't have a glowing history when it comes to goals and following through on a particular one. I attribute this to a lack of guidance when I was younger. I love my parents very much, but they were very hands off when it came to their child. As long as I did well in school and didn't get into trouble they thought things were fine. I was also subject to a band director in grammar school who thought boys didn't play flute and who probably needed more saxophone players than clarinetists. I was allowed to drift from interest to interest, and no one (not even myself) bothered to ask me what I REALLY wanted to do in life. I was good at music and science, so I chose science, thinking it was "more practical." Where was my head?
I didn't really begin thinking about my direction until my introspective post-college years when corporate America failed to fill that creative void in me. Who'd a'thunk it? Having missed so much practice time I doubted whether pursuing a dream would be feasible. I still do which is why I'm posting this. I know that the effort will and must be my own, but I wanted to get a sense if it was even possible. Knowing that people my age still go to music school for performance degrees is very encouraging, and I'll be asking my family what they think about the idea over Christmas break.
On the topic of music education, I balk at this idea, and here's why. I know the frustration of being taught by someone who has the passion for the subject but the inability to teach it. So many of my professors in college were physicists first and teaches last. I sometimes have difficulty communicating my ideas and tend to get frustrated when other people don't understand what I'm trying to say.
I guess it still comes down to how much do I want this, and am I willing or able to put in the effort. Thanks everyone for your replies. =)
Sean
PS. Anyone want to give me free lessons? :D J/K. =)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-12-06 06:09
The notion of being a "professional clarinetist" sounds noble and intriguing.
However, after a few years, when your friends have moved on and bought their own homes, have retirement plans in place, have disposable income, medical benefits, and treat themselves to the better things in life, the "professional clarinetist" monicker loses its luster very quickly.
A struggling musician is not a pretty sight.
I've seen lots of them - most were unhappy and bitter...GBK (retired public school music educator and still an active big band and orchestral performer)
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2004-12-06 07:53
Hi,
After reading your post, I was wondering what others’ answers and advice will be, and they sound reasonable and supportive (as always..^^ that’s why I like this bboard>)
In fact I very much sympathize with you, as I was also in a way in the life path situation myself recently. It was quite a painful and confusing period of time, I must say. I’m a 36-year old conference interpreter/translator and mom of 2 kids. (You note the age factor here..) It’s been about a year since I started the clarinet lesson, and some 3 weeks ago I sat down with my teacher and we talked about the next step… Because even though I’m having real fun studying the pieces my teacher gives me at the lessons and playing in the amateur ensemble that I joined, I sometimes wondered ‘why am I doing this?’
My teacher’s advice was that I try to enter in a music university or hopefully in a graduate program! Upon hearing this, I can’t deny that I felt somewhat flattered at such recommendation. But he said “ONLY IF you continue your job as interpreter AND pursue this music degree”. He said he would definitely oppose to my changing career all together (for ex. hold everything and practice 10 hours+ a day to become pro clarinetist).
It sounded somewhat confusing at first; but now I really thank him for being so honest and realistic. As for tuition and the financial needs that will entail any musical education, who will tap the bill? My parents? Nonsense! My hubby? I don’t think so, and my pride won’t allow that. So, I believe the only viable way for me to pursue my clarinet education in depth is actually (and paradoxically, I have to add) by my working as interpreter/translator, as I’ve been doing for the last 10 years.
Of course, I said ‘paradoxically’ because that will definitely halve my time to practice and focus between clarinet and work. And also I don’t think I’ll be Korea’s Sabine Meyer even with music school degree :D.. But such a goal gives me a sense of orientation and above all… joy! (probably I sound too naïve..? )
I apologize for this lengthy story of mine. I hope you will make a good decision, wish you all the best.
P.S. Oh, by the way, if anybody in this Bboard plans to visit Korea or need any translation/interpretation (from English to Korean, and vice versa) service, please let me know (dikkylucy@dreamwiz.com). I can offer some discount. (Will Mark erase this? I’m not selling any clarinet product here, though^^)…
[ I have very fond memories of Pusan, Inchon, and Seoul (especially the National Museum in Seoul - the artifacts from the Silla period are breathtaking!) - so an exception is in store here 
Annyonghi kyeseyo, Mark C. ]
Lucy Lee Jang
Post Edited (2004-12-06 21:14)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-12-06 08:28
Few people make their passion their income, make a significant income from it, and have it remain their passion.
Another possibility is to use the training and expertise you have in other fields, specifically for a good income, without the expectation that it be a passionate part of your life, and save the passionate interest for where it can be most comfortable, your leisure life.
If your life does not become too preoccupied with ever-indulgent income, as per mainstream population, then you could well find a niche where you work for fewer hours/days, resulting in less stress from the job which is not your passion, and more time to indulge in the passion.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-12-06 08:46
I've asked myself this question countless times. I ask it every day, and in fact, about every 10 minutes during every single practice session. Before and after every concert, after my recital, and everytime I look at my college marks (whether good or bad). The fact is, if I wasn't so worried about 'making it', I could probably do better!
There was a time when I didn't get into the college I wanted to straight out of high school. I was very depressed, hard on myself; I blamed it all on me.
What got me through it was looking deep inside, and asking myself if I had what it takes to 'make it'. After almost 8 months, my answer was yes. I can 'go all the way' and nothing's going to stop me. I worked my ass off, got into my college, and am just about to enter my final year. It's been a fruitful and successful time, and I'll never look back at that long long time I spent being down and out. Because without it, I wouldn't be able to shake off the self-doubt and discouragement today. Time had made me stronger and challenges have equipped me for more and more to come.
My answer is this: Only you can answer your question in the end. Do some soul-searching and you'll find what you seek. "Only those who seek shall become". No idea where I heard that!
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-12-06 09:56
Gordon is absolutely right. Few of us are lucky enough to make a living from our passion - and who is to say it would remain our passion if we were to make a living from it?
I like to say to myself, "If you can't do what you enjoy, at least try to enjoy what you do."
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-12-06 14:26
Just another angle here -- from someone who has spent her life being a "jack [jill] of all trades," but truly mastered none:
It's not real clear to me what you actually want.
If you are simply passionate about being a musical performer -- on wind instruments, voice, or all of the above -- then the answer, of course, is "Yes! You absolutely can do that." And probably at whatever very high level you yourself are capable of attaining. There are literally endless opportunties for capable performers in local, civic, and regional ensembles in every community that I've ever known (including my present one, which is a backwater of the most extreme sort). And if you don't find just what you want already in existence, you can start your own.
But in your question, I also sense an undertone of a desire for recognition, for praise, for being kind of an overachiever or "superstar", or being considered superior. I am sure you like a challenge, and I am sure you are very gifted. I am also pretty sure you love it when people are wowed by what you do. And if I'm reading this right, what I'm questioning is, which of these is the biggest motivator for you -- the desire to be a performing musician, or the desire to be a "star"?
We (musical performers) all have a healthy dose of extroversion -- it's necessary to what we do. But we can sometimes become "praise junkies", and find it necessary to get it in ever-higher doses as we go along, really finding satisfaction in nothing unless the accolades are continually forthcoming. And when the cheering stops -- when we can't wow the crowd anymore with whatever it is we were doing -- our interest wanes, we start to feel bored or uncomfortable, and we start looking around for the next conquest that will bring renewed applause.
And if this is your personality, it really doesn't matter what field you are in: nothing will ever completely satisfy you, even though you achieve greatly, unless the good feelings are coming from WITHIN.
Better not ask me how I know this. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Susan
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-12-06 14:43
The path through schooling is (in my opinion) somewhat oversold. I don't claim to be God's gift to the music profession, and I've never had any "formal" training other than what was given through a high school band program (i.e., no lessons, no true "music" courses, etc.). But, I've done well enough over the years (both in challenging performance opportunities and in "commercial music") to know that I've gotten a lot of fulfillment and lucre out of my "investment" in the craft.
Remember, Mozart never went to an academy or college. He may have studied with his father, but he got where he got (a mass burial pit with a shovelful of quicklime in his face) on his own hard work and practice alone.
Those who advise musicians to "not give up your day job" are wise indeed. Figure a maximum of 100 paid symphonic orchestras in the country (a bit on the high side, actually), groups that pay at least the minimum wage. That's four hundred clarinet players tops, and virtually all of them work a second job teaching beyond their "day" job. Figure 100 hours a week (counting practice) for a decent living (and that probably being on the low side of the "middle class". Not a pretty economic picture...it's a day job with all of the negatives of drudge work and few of the positives. (College funds, mortgages, vacations and so forth were long deferred by the full time pros that I know.)
And, that's assuming you get the job in the first place. With dozens of applicants for even the least desirable symphonic job (and hundreds for the best), your probability of wedging your foot in the door is pretty low to begin with. Going up against graduates of Julliard and schools of its ilk (Berkelee???? A nod to our jazz fans...) with a resume that features a few years of private lessons is even less productive.
If you do music as a advocation rather than a vocation, all of this stands on its head. Having a non-music job means that you have a shot at affording all of those deferred items mentioned above, as well as having enough money so as not to have to work two jobs to live a middle class existence. Then, you have a lot of spare time that will allow you to pursue music "on the side" and do quite well at it.
Most of the music pros that I know these days fall into the "teach school music during the day and play for the bucks on the side at night" category. I've never "worked" in the musical field in a formal position in an orchestra or as a music educator (and have that big goose egg in the formal training column on my resume), but I've always cleared a tidy "fun income" playing on the side. Being in the union helps, as do the connections that you make in the industry, and sometimes you might have to reconcile finding yourself in that German band mentioned above. But, it's as much fun as endless orchestra rehearsals plus a concert a month, and THERE ARE FAR MORE OPENINGS.
(My biggest musical "score" was filling in at a Christmas musical job at a local Lutheran church: no rehearsals, just two hours of playing lead clarinet (and some bass clarinet; I had the #2 gal take the lead on a couple of numbers) for a "Christian musical" with songs that went "La-la-la-LA-la-la, Jee-sus". Their lead clarinet gal, who was a music teacher, got cold feet and up and quit, so Unca Terry got the nod for the part. Best $300 I ever banked...and obtained on my reputation of being able to handle all styles and multiple horns.)
Union style work, in big bands, show bands, commercial stuff and the like (I even played in a circus band for three weeks once...it teaches you to love the key of Bb major) is "legitimate" musical work, as evidenced by the dirty papers that they count out into your hand at the end of the job. If you've got the skills (and anyone who can hack oboe, flute, clarinet and sax can definitely acquire them with a bit of practice), you've got a pass into that side of the musical world already in your pocket.
Keep the day job, work at the music on your own time, and let people know that you play alto/tenor/baritone, clarinet and flute. The offers will come...
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2004-12-06 15:29
What's so wrong with keeping music making as an advanced hobby? You will probably make more money in corporate American than you would as a struggling clarinetist.
On this bulletin board the same advice has been offered: only pursue clarinet as a career if you feel that it is the only career you could ever do. If you have the capacity to do anything else, then do it.
Good luck,
Ron Jr.
Post Edited (2006-03-06 17:47)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-12-06 15:34
One thing that I neglected to include in my post, is that for the first 20 years of my career, I worked at least 15 hours a week part-time outside of the field. For seven years straight, I held a full time job until my teaching business was built up enough to go full-time. This means that I worked at music close to full-time while also working my day job full-time. No matter how you cut it, it's a lot of hours. I've also pulled a lot of all-nighters developing instructional materials, working on my website, and writing arrangements.
It was hard to quit my day job, and the only reason I did was that it was entry level anyway--I had spent my entire career scheduling extra employment around my music.
A friend recently quit a very good job to go to college and study music ed. After 2 1/2 years, he now realizes that he does not want to be a school band director and his debts are mounting. I don't know what he'll do on graduation.
A number of people have pointed out that you can acheive a high degree of polish as a player, while still having a good income. I know a number of people with graduate degrees in clarinet who have good jobs and comfortable lives, while being very active as players. In most cases, they are paid little or nothing. But they are finding each other, playing together and having enjoyable lives doing it. Sometimes they pick up some 'mad money' playing shows or other gigs that trickle out. Their music enhances their lives, but doesn't dominate them.
I struggle every day, and it's only because I'm very LUCKY, I LOVE what I'm doing, I have a combination of skills that are rare in my town, I've been in the right place at the right time in several cases, and other players have helped me get some of the connections that I now count on. At least two thirds of my income is from teaching private lessons, and what I just said about my playing connections applies to the lessons, too.
I am also single. And I'm likely to stay that way living in a small apartment and driving an old car.
So that's the downside--just to be balanced.
I wouldn't trade this career for anything--but I've traded a lot for this career.
Allen Cole
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-06 15:45
Learn a trade and play music for relaxation. Plumbers make good wages.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-06 20:00
My youngest son is 28 and tried the professional musician thing--right after the professional golfer thing. He managed a big golf course in Dallas, TX and it sold out to a group who came in and fired everyone--bringing in their own people. He was dejected and went back to North Texas to finish school. However, a good friend of his joined a rock band that was absolutely going to go somewhere fast. He traveled with them for a couple of years in abject poverty and finally is working at Brook Mays Print Music in Dallas for $7.00 per hour. We bought a house for him to "rent" from us so he isn't homeless.
My advise--don't try to break into the professional music field unless you have a huge bankroll or parents who have a tremendous amount of patience.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2004-12-07 01:31
You are not in a band/orchestra/choir but you love music and wonder if you drop everything to pursue music? As the master once said, "Try? There is no try. There is only do or not do." Here is a quote from another very serious musician:
"My life is music. And in some vague, mysterious, and subconscious way, I have always been driven by a taut inner spring which has propelled me to almost compulsively reach for perfection in music, often-- in fact, mostly-- at the expense of everything else in my life." -- Stan Getz (1927-91)
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Bani
Date: 2004-12-07 01:42
Brenda, that’s very noble.
On our dreams
Sean, you wanted advice now you’ve got loads of it and all of them quite good.
Just the other day a colleague who’s a horse-racing addict ask me what I would do with all the money if I won the jackpot (that day it was US$4m but I’m not into horse racing so it was an academic question for me).
I thought hard about it and it occurred to me (I’m 47 working as a business editor) that what I wanted most right now not even all the money in the world can buy.
What do I want: to transform myself quickly into a good clarinet player (perhaps professional level but I’ve only been playing it for over a year). Even if I started working on it right now, full-time (which is out of the question) it’ll take me at least a decade, most probably more.
In any case, even with all the money in the world I can’t become the clarinetist I want to be as quickly as I would want to do. I can still dream about it but I also realized the closest I can be to such a dream is probably to be a decent recreational clarinetist at best (at least in this lifetime). Perhaps I’m fortunate because I’m at peace with this realization and not frustrated at all.
In your case, at the “ripe of old age of 28” you’ve still got the whole world before you.
Try looking at it this way: perhaps you didn’t make the wrong choice when you chose “science” over of “music.” Perhaps physics and astronomy (even if you lack the passion for them) may be the ticket by which you can fulfill your dreams.
IMHO, the important thing is to be at peace with whatever decision you make. Sometimes peace does not come easily. When this happens try praying for it. It works.
Thanks and God bless!
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2004-12-07 02:35
It's funny that this post came up.
Not two months ago, I was struggling with a similar conflict. I am a freshman in college, studying chemical engineering and I realized on a rainy Sunday evening (and cold too!) that I really didn't have a passion for chemical engineering...let me make this very clear, I have an inclination towards it but I LOVE music and writing and playing and everything that comes with it. Like you said, going to hear a symphony play is like going to another universe-in-a-vacuum. I went to hear the Pittsburgh Symph. play Petroushka and the first act of Swan Lake and it was heavely...it made my week! Nevertheless, I contacted two friends of a friend of mine (believe it or not) Michael Colgrass and Frank Battisti. I told them that I was in a pickle in that I am torn between my passion and the reality of making a living in a world where my passion is dying with the culture: music appreciation is way down and ignorance to heart-felt music is gowing up (sense the bias towards classical music?). He told me that since I am in college, take every opportunity to heighten my awareness and education but don't rely on music to make a living. It was a lot easier to make a living 20, 30, or 40 years ago than it is now. As a contemporary of yours, I would stronly urge you to continue your life in science and do music as a hobby. There are countless opportunities to play that don't involve a near-impossible-to-get orchestra gig.
Speaking of orchestral gigs, I will tell you straight from the heart that I don't think it would be possible for you to get a job in a reasonable-paying job playing the clarinet professionally. Why? Look at what you're up against (it was said in an earlier post, but here it is again): hundreds of applicants for the best jobs in the country, maybe fifty for the community orchestras. That's not good odds. I met a guy at a band concert a few weeks ago who informed me that he was the former principal French hornist in the Pittsburgh Symphony, on the more reknown side. He said that a few years into his tenure with the group, they had an opening for the second horn spot. He said they had maybe 10 or 12 applicants for the job and call-backs included the best three. One didn't show up, one was ill, and the other came prepared. Guess who got the job. Now, he said, you'll get 300 hornists for a job, all professionally trained at the best conservatories and universities in the world (yes, WORLD) vying for a single spot. How can you contend with that? It's not possible when you're considering the applicant pool.
But like I said, it is very possible for you to fulfil your desire for music without enrolling in college and going into debt. Join community groups. Where are you located? In almost every major city, there are community groups that play rather sophisticated music. The local volunteer band near my house around D.C. was made up of old men and women and a few middle-aged people and they were playing music like Hammersmith, Scottish Dances, etc.
Good luck to you and God bless.
Best,
-Robert
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Author: SimpsonSaxGal
Date: 2004-12-07 03:09
I am a college freshman. I came to Simpson College thinking that I would attempt to get a BA in Music with Pre-Medicine, aiming to get into medical school. A bad biology class and excellent music classes inspired me to change my mind and major in music. I know high school band directors don't get paid much money, but that is what I can see myself doing in 10 years.
I don't know why I responded to this. Maybe because I felt kind of the same way. Follow your heart, but do so realistically.
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Author: frank
Date: 2004-12-07 04:53
I know of a professional clarinet player who started playing the clarinet at 23 years old. This was a person with no prior music experience and no training whatsoever. It's been about 10 years now and he is a terrific player and is FAR better than most people who have been playing 3 times as long. I call him an adult prodigy! He told me the reason why he learned so fast and continues to get better all the time is that he learns like a child does, which is free of ego. He learns for learning sake and doesn't fall into the typical adult trappings, which can hinder growth by placing limits on what he should know already, sterotypes, etc. . When I was getting my undergrad with him, He was pretty awesome. I think I was the only one he told of how long he had been playing. He was on full scholarship, which he won when he auditioned. Ready for this? He only had been playing a total of TWO YEARS at that time! This was a reputable music conservatory too, not some music department at Anyschool USA. Was he the usual student? Absolutely not. He had amazing raw talent along with the drive and discipline to make it.
Go for your dreams, reach for the stars. You only live once, so do what you are most passionate about and let the cards fall where they may. People who claim to be "realistic" and nay say most likely have set limits to begin with, and sadly, have probably already hit a wall. I never worry about people like that because they create more job opportunities for me. The only thing that will stop you from acheiving your goals and dreams is YOU! But... with all that said, it's a very long and hard road to walk. It's a tough world out there for musicians and you have to always be passionate about it or it will make you quit. Hope my friend's inspiring story helps you. Feel free to ask more about it, as I love to share his story with others.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-12-07 05:22
frank wrote:
> Go for your dreams, reach for the stars. You only live once,
> so do what you are most passionate about and let the cards fall
> where they may.
/ most clichés contained in one sentence, ever ...GBK ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-12-07 06:28
Bani! You didn't go for the jackpot? Your story reminds me of a well-worn joke about the jazz musician who won millions in a lottery jackpot.
When asked what he was going to do with all that cash, he said, "I'm just going to keep playing gigs until the money runs out."
I was also reminded of Sean's inquiry as I worked with a student tonight who has his own ideas about how to do everything, a list of different instruments he wants to play, and the 'need for speed'--yet who plays in nothing extracurricular, doesn't try out for things like All-District Band, has yet to learn his major scales and depends completely on rote for his counting.
What I realized about this student was that he was trying to adapt music to himself, his own personal tastes, and the boundaries of his comfort zone. What he doesn't get is the fact that we who play even at the amateur level ADAPT OURSELVES to the music at hand. My entire career is based on adapting. I couldn't ever do this full-time on my own terms.
Sean, what you need to consider is whether you can enjoy music on someone else's terms. That's pretty much mandatory for all wind players, and it goes at least quadruple for clarinetists.
Allen Cole
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2004-12-07 13:48
GBK worte <However, after a few years, when your friends have moved on and bought their own homes, have retirement plans in place, have disposable income, medical benefits, and treat themselves to the better things in life, the "professional clarinetist" monicker loses its luster very quickly.>
FWIW, I recently emailed a teacher of mine from college after many years. He had a symphony job at the time, but has since left it and gotten an MBA. Another teacher long ago told me that his best student ever had given up his symphony job after many years becauses he had some goals in midlife that would be very difficult to achieve doing what he was doing. You have the means to support yourself at this point--I'm with those who say to use that to pursue your music but don't count on it to pay the bills.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-07 13:58
Well, my son just informed me that the guitar player/singer in the former band has sold a song to a Quintin Terrantino movie. So, now I guess he'll dream again.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2004-12-07 15:20
Brenda, your post gets me singing one of my favorite songs, by George Thorogood:
"my parents taught me what life was about
so I grew up the type they warned me about
they said my friends were just an unruly mob, and I should
GET A HAIRCUT AND GET A REAL JOB--
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Author: sbbishop
Date: 2004-12-07 21:16
Sean
You didn't follow your music in college when you had the chance.
You didn't follow your training in astronomy and physics when you had the chance.
You now want out of "corporate america"(whatever that is).
You don't have a dream. You don't have a passion. You don't know what you want. You would like somebody else to make up your mind for you.
I suggest you stay in "corporate america" so that you can support yourself until you can get your head straightened out. Right now you are a ship at sea without a rudder.
I would suggest some professional councelling. You have some deep seated problems that need to be addressed. Get the help you need and get on with your life in a productive way.
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Author: clarinetmajr
Date: 2004-12-07 21:29
Oy vey. Ouch to the above. If you think you've got what it takes and you are willing to make the sacrifices, go for it! There's no gaurantees but you'll never know until you try. I don't think having a disatisfaction with corporate america indicates mental problems... I think you've just had a realization and it can be difficult to decide what to do. Maybe finding a mentor or an experienced performer as a teacher would be a good first step.
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2004-12-07 21:29
sbbhishop,
Isn't that too harsh a judgment? How can you be so sure about what Sean didn't and doesn't do? I can't understand the personality of the writer underlying in a text maybe because English is my second language...
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: Brad
Date: 2004-12-07 22:54
I went through some very similar feelings about 3 years ago. I am (today is my b-day) 43 and at 40 I made the decision to follow the path I believe I am to be on, the path of being a musician. I am so much happier now because of this decision even though I am very unsure of how it will all turn out.
I have a degree in music and was strongly discouraged by my family to pursue a career in music. I realize they were only trying to look out for me, but they really never gave me the chance to make up my own mind. I was very successful in my college music days and was encouraged by my teachers to pursue a career in music. The summer after college I got a "summer" job as a computer operator and have turned that summer job into a 100k+ a year career in computers. From the time I started with computers I felt emptiness and sadness increasing dramatically with each passing year.
Luckily I had kept up my playing to a servicable level and after several years of therapy finally realized why I was so sad. It was because music was not enough of a part of my life and because I never gave myself the chance to follow my heart. To make a long story short, I started practicing like a madman, taking lessons, and playing every opportunity I could get. I am at the point now where I take orchestral auditions and although I haven't won any yet, my teacher and I both feel that I am competetive and that I should keep trying. ALl that practicing is like money in the bank. I have started picking up students and am playing more than I have since I left college.
I am preparing to leave my lifeless computer job early next year and even though money will be a bit tighter I can't wait. I have had the nice house, the nice car, the toys, etc, etc, for me it is BORING and not worth the price of not having music as the main focus of my life.
I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you how unhappy I was and how happy I am now. I may win an orchestral job, or not, maybe teaching school, it doesn't really matter as long as I am on the right path.
I wish you luck in your decisions.
Brad
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2004-12-08 00:12
sbbishop, that was quite harsh! How can you possibly know who this person is or who he is like by the two messages he has wrote?! You know what happens when you assume...
It seems like the bottom line is the following:
If you are willing to give up the nice job with a nice salary to pursue something in a field that does not guarantee a job or financial security, then by all means go for it! But if you have ANY qualms about what COULD happen, then certainly sit on it. But KEEP PRACTICING!! Whether you do go back to school or whatever, that will at least keep the music drive alive!
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Author: Bani
Date: 2004-12-08 04:59
>What I realized about this student was that he was trying to adapt music to >himself, his own personal tastes, and the boundaries of his comfort zone. >What he doesn't get is the fact that we who play even at the amateur level >ADAPT OURSELVES to the music at hand. My entire career is based on >adapting. I couldn't ever do this full-time on my own terms.
>Sean, what you need to consider is whether you can enjoy music on >someone else's terms. That's pretty much mandatory for all wind players, and i>t goes at least quadruple for clarinetists.
Allen,
Right on target. Thanks for your appreciation. God bless!
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2004-12-08 08:39
Brad,
What an inspiring story..! Thanks for sharing it, and may I wish you all the luck in your future musical endeavor.
Lucy Lee Jang
Post Edited (2004-12-08 08:40)
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Author: sbbishop
Date: 2004-12-08 14:54
Too all posters;
I read again Sean's two posts very carefully.
I still stand by what I said in my first post.
If you take the time to read his and my posts, I think you will find that all I did was restate what he said about himself, with the added advice of getting councelling.
Regards,
Stephen Bishop
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Author: chipper
Date: 2004-12-08 15:47
I am six years from the retirement carrot in a field that began as a passion but has faded a bit due to changes both in the field and within myself. I'd like nothing more than to chuck it all and become a sailing instructor in the Carribean, marry people on the beach with my wife and I providing the music and perhaps play in an island band in the evenings. The thought of warm breezes and aqua blue waters is distracting me from what I must do... raise two boys for a few more years and in the process secure a future income so that, God willing I can persue something that will be as fun as my original carreer was in the beginning. And I'm hearing this setiment from those who persued either music or a more lucreative carreer path.
I do have to say, though, that since my wife was injured in an auto accident last year (and severly disabled) our priorities have changed. Both she and I are having more fun and worrying a lot less.
So, Sean, go for what makes you happy with a plan as to how you are going to eat for you never know when God will reach out and take it all away. Do what you need to do to achieve a level of physical comfort but don't ignore your dreams. Do what you have to and enjoy it all because the right path is more a matter of perspective than an absolute.
C
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-12-08 20:00
Sean,
I understand your position. I am the same age as you, and have already made a couple career shifts.
I always wanted to be a doctor. From the time I was 5 til my final year of highschool. Got excellent grades in maths and sciences. Then one day I realized that the only reason I still wanted to be a doctor was because I had always wanted to be one. Though I still loved math and science, I didn't feel I could dedicate my life to medicine.
Then I discovered theatre. (Tech - I'm no actor!). I had a passion for it, and I was good at what I did. I went through a four year university program - prepared to make no money, prepared to constantly look for work, prepared to get very little thanks for the job I was doing. I finished the degree, worked in pro theatre for a fairly short period of time, and realized that though I still loved it, I didn't love it ENOUGH.
I moved into doing some administrative stuff for a Canadian company. Hated it. Just loathed it. But it was a steady paycheque (though a tiny one).
Last year, I went to teacher's college and I'm just starting my teaching career.
Guess what? I have no doubt that I'll eventually move on to something else. I do love teaching. But I know myself and I do get bored easily and move on. I'll likely stay in the education field, but I can't picture myself doing ANYTHING for 30 years.
I guess some would say it was a lack of focus and that I should run right out and pay a counsellor to tell me so. But I would disagree. I pour my heart and soul into EVERYTHING I do. I am dedicated, hardworking, and totally commited. But I have SO many interests, that eventually I feel a need to move on and explore something else.
I understand the itch to move on. I'm the poster child for it. And I've done the "suffer for my art" thing when I did theatre. The problem with music is the road to good gigs is SO long, that if your personality is similar to mine, you'll likely feel the need to move on again before you really get anywhere.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do it - you know what's in your heart. But if your personality is similar to mine in this regard (and you do sound like me in many ways) then just be aware of it, and try to remember that you might want another path to follow in 5 or 10 years time. I don't think there's a thing wrong with that - you get one life, you might as well be doing something you love. But try not to blindly assume that you'll stick to music forever when your personality might mean that you'll "need" to move on to something new to be happy!
Sharon
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2004-12-08 20:16
An excerpt from "The Purpose-Driven Life" by Rick Warren.
" You don't bring glory or pleasure to God by hiding your abilities or by trying to be someone else. You only bring Him enjoyment by being you. Anytime you reject any part of yourself, you are rejecting God's wisdom and sovereignty in creating you. God says "You have no right to argue with your Creator. You are merely a clay pot shaped by a potter. The clay doesn't ask, 'Why did you make me this way?" (Isaiah 45:9)"
Regardless of what religion you have, I hope the message can be of help to who are in the life paths dilemma.
Lucy Lee Jang
Post Edited (2004-12-08 21:11)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-12-08 21:07
claclaws wrote:
> An excerpt from "The Purpose-Driven Life" by Rick Warren.
Which, of course, assumes some sort of god, an assumption that doesn't include many of us ...
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2004-12-09 12:01
Pursuing a dream is always a good idea, as long as one isn't blind to the amount of work necessary to fulfill that dream. Best of luck to you Sean, I've been pulling for you all along.
--Michael
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Author: ken
Date: 2004-12-10 04:28
seanj85 wrote: "So what I'm saying here is at the ripe old age of 28 :D with no music degree, clarinet ensemble experience or lifetime of practice, would I be insane to try to pursue clarinet performance as a career?"
--the BIG question; do you think you can live with your decision to YES pursue or NOT one way or another in 20 years?? 40 years?? Are you going to pull a Van Gogh at 65 because you don't have enough of a pension to retire, or eating Kraft dinner for breakfast and splitting your meds in half while forking-out $6K-plus annually for healthcare?? Will you want to closet the clarinet after losing your 10th minor orchestra audition in a row and you just paid $1,000-plus in travel expenses to fly across the country to take it? The doom and gloom scenarios are endless.
But, if you think for a second you'll hate yourself, or walk around kicking your lip forever for NOT trying then "run don't walk" to University and/or teacher and launch your dream. You might be broke and never solo at Carnegie Hall but you'll die with a satisfying grin. But be prepared to suffer, as well as revel in the rewards.
Interestingly, what I surmised from the tenor of your post is how logically concerned you are (at 28 y/o, or what Frank Zappa referred to as, "slowly aging, very hip young people") over already nailing down a "profession"; I trust you're not implying after 30 one is over the hill? I might suggest from some of us "fall of our youth clarinetists" (I'll be 47 on 20 Dec) and health permitting, 30 is plenty of time to change career paths. There are also myriad advantages being further down life's road; older, wiser, more experienced, and hopefully more bill padding.
It appears, (by pure assumption) you're also single so the responsibilities and anchor of a family isn't a factor. So, if it were I, and becoming a working, full-time musician was the long-term goal, I would pursue my instrument of "potential", not choice for quicker success … one can always go back to the preferred stick after well in the door. This is not the best comparison however, any real car collector will advise a new enthusiast, "if it's your desire to own a particular make and model, don't be picky on the year … just get one!"
And, if the music scene doesn't pan out after giving it your all, you can always go back to school (as well as fall back on) and get a teaching certificate in a previous degree … re-invent yourself, as it were. There are many regular posters here that have thrived off of that kind of career, or gigging part-time, maintaining music as a supplemental source of income.
Bottom line, 28 y/o isn't close to being too late … the saying goes, "bloom where you are planted" ... so good luck and make it happen! v/r Ken
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-12-10 20:08
Echoing what Allen Cole said... you need to be able to enjoy music on someone else's terms. You say you love to listen to the symphonic orchestra and want to be part of that. Well, who doesn't? But most of us aren't going to, as everyone has said, so we piece together a life which includes music and possibly some other things.
At the age of 28, I question why you are asking your family what to do.
Sue
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-12-10 23:45
"At the age of 28, I question why you are asking your family what to do."
Ummm...I fail to see why this is a big deal??? A lot of people - even after they are on their own and don't rely on their parents financially etc, still value their opinion. I'm not sure why someone would question a person asking their family for advice? He didn't say he was asking for PERMISSION. I ask my family and friends for advice all the time. It's not because they have any power over me or I NEED to - it's because I value their opinion. I, for one, will be thrilled if my son, at 28, values my opinion enough that he comes to me for advice on something as important as a total career change.
Sharon
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-12-11 03:24
I guess what I am questioning is the wisdom of asking everyone else's opinion about what you should do with your life. It is certainly appropriate to gather information regarding a variety of professions from those involved in those professions.
Sue
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-12-11 03:55
That I can see a bit more. However, I can understand why he might ask other people for opinions. I'm a person who solves problems by talking things through. By talking to others, and looking for advice, I often am more able to work through the problem. It's not necessarily the advice I am given that helps, but the process of seeking it.
Sharon
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-11 15:25
Sometimes we can even seek advice from those whose opinions we don't agree with knowing, then, what not to do...
It's your move , Sean.
Bob Draznik
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Author: cathpiano
Date: 2004-12-12 23:29
If you want to play in an orchestra, take up the viola. It's close in range to the clarinet and orchestras are always looking for violists. Play in community orchestra. You can double as a clarinetist. A bonus for any conductor!
Stick with your day job.
Catherine
Catherine McMichael
Camellia Music
www.catherinemcmichael.com
989-792-4544
cathpiano@aol.com
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The Clarinet Pages
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