 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-07 21:13
I want to just give a word of caution to everyone out there buying online for Christmas (Holidays). As an eBay user I have noticed a few suspicious things today as I scanned the clarinet listings. Before you bid, please email the seller and find out more information on the items. If you're going to bid several hundred or a thousand dollars--or even a few dollars--please check out the seller. If he/she doesn't have any feedback, see if you can find their phone number and give them a call, or send an email and ask for a phone number and talk to them in person.
Don't bid on anything without checking their feedback. If you need to ask for references, a legitimate seller doesn't mind giving them.
If you see something suspicious, ask questions. For instance, I saw a photo of a particular mouthpiece being used by 2 sellers. It's obvious that both of them don't have the mouthpiece. So, perhaps one of the 2 "borrowed" the photo--or perhaps one of the 2 doesn't have a mouthpiece at all to sell. Or, perhaps he has a mouthpiece, but it doesn't look as nice as the other guy's mouthpiece. Photo theft is common, even though we sellers warn people not to do it.
If you've checked everything out, be sure you can return the item if you don't like it--or if it's defective. Don't ever buy from someone who says they're selling "as is" and no returns are allowed--particularly on an instrument.
Have a good time, but be careful.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-07 22:59
"Have a good time, but be careful."
My mother always used to tell me that and I'd always say, "Mom, make up your mind"
Bob Draznik
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-12-07 23:40
Agreed...I noticed one with a negative one feedback and "private bidder"
schema....and they will not answer my email...too bad, because one of the horns looked decent.
And this post is from someone who has had a lot of success buying and selling on ebay
Caveat emptor.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: avincel
Date: 2004-12-08 01:02
I may be the biggest jerk going, but I was taken twice on ebay recently when bidding on clarinets. The first time in September I "won" a new professional Amati. The buyer wanted a wire payment; I complied and never received the instrument. Supposedly I learned my lesson. The second time (yesterday) I was "given" a second chance offer on an R13 that I didn't win. The "offer" seemed to come directly from ebay, complete with logos, trademarks, purchase protection, etc. Again, they wanted money transfer. Since the offer seemed authentic and I really wanted the clarinet I complied and lost out again. The scammers had stolen the authentic documents, created an authentic looking return address (...ebay.com) and found a sucker--- me!
My advice: be wary of authentic looking messages offering deals too good to be true. Scammers know all the tricks, and ebay doesn't protect you where it really counts. And never, ever, pay by money transfer. You have absolutely no recourse. No matter how attractive the offer, walk away if they insist. Use PayPal or pay by credit card so that you can stop payment if you need to.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-12-08 02:24
I have purchased a number of horns on Ebay/internet and have never been "had". I do take some steps to protect myself. First, I pay only by postal money order (US/Canada). I mail the money order only by certified or registered mail so the seller must sign. I never send a money order to a seller that doesn't exchange emails with me nor provide not only an address but a phone number. I always verify the phone number via the internet or by calling. I prefer a seller who accepts Visa payments rather than Paypal or "cash". The seller must have a great feedback on eBay.
My only complaint with eBay is only ONCE was the horn actually in better condition then advertised. I don't mind buying "as is" or not being able to return an item but when someone advertises a clarinet as playable and the pads are falling out, well that's fraud in my book.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-12-08 02:31)
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2004-12-08 02:31
All really good advice. As an ebay seller selling sheet music, I have worked hard for my 100% positive rating and there are many fine sellers on ebay who do the same. If you see someone with a less-than-perfect rating, look through the comments left by buyers. This can be revealing about the kind of person you are dealing with. If the seller gets a negative comment and gets nasty about it by leaving a scathing reply, that is probably a seller to stay away from. On the other hand, even a -great guy- like me will eventually get a negative comment or two, so by looking at the reasons for the negative comments, you may be able to see that the seller is still a good and honest person to work with.
Another pointer is to use "escrows" for purchasing instruments worth a lot of money. These are separate companies that will hold the funds in an escrow account until both buyer and seller are satisfied. I sold a great old saxophone that way and both I and the buyer were pleased with the security and protection of the escrow.
It is true that ebay is limited with buyer protection, so you need to protect yourself.
John Gibson, JB Linear Music
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
Post Edited (2004-12-08 02:32)
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-12-08 03:48
NEVER EVER WIRE THE MONEY!!!!
I use PayPal almost exclusively...yes they extract a fee...BUT it is safer.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: pewd
Date: 2004-12-08 03:55
one of my rules is never use a money order.
use paypal and fund it with a credit card, you can always call the credit card company to deny payment on a fradulent transaction.
money order of any type (postal, western union) - no
wire transfer - never - wire transfers are almost always frauds
cash in an envelop - no way
use something traceable - paypal and credit card
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-12-08 10:58
I think that with regard to Money Orders it depends a lot on who the seller is - if he/she is a reputable eBayer with a good feedback history, then it's probably OK.
I bought my lovely Leblanc LL, as well as two other very good clarinets, through a USA seller (who sometimes posts on this BBoard) who only accepts Money Orders from international customers, and if I'd refused to entertain the idea of money orders it would have been my loss!
But I am very wary of seemingly great bargains - some of them are indeed very suspicious-sounding..... and if a seller doesn't answer my query, I don't deal with them, however tempting the instrument might be! And Paypal is certainly the best payment method, for speed and efficiency as well as security.
Joanna Brown
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Author: avincel
Date: 2004-12-08 14:23
Excellent advice by all. There are always exceptions, but unless you know whom you're dealing with, it's best to be extra cautious. What puzzles me is the high incidence of fraud with the ebay sale of clarinets. I had a number of ebay dealings with other items and never had a problem.
Vince
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-08 14:58
I've made hundreds of transactions on eBay and most of them have been positive. But lately it seems there are more scam artists out there--and it's BOTH buyers and sellers. I've have several "buyers" try to get me to accept a cashier's check for WAY more than the amount and then want me to wire the "change" then they'll send their person to pick up the instrument, etc. I refused to do business with that person and took instrument off the market for a while and sold it later to a great person who really appreciated it. Then, I have the usual "bums" who don't pay and string you along forever on something.
I've also gotten some of those funny "second chance" offers on stuff I didn't bid on. My husband's eBay account was suspended recently because someone got his credit card information and we're not sure what happened (he doesn't listen to my advise).
So, bottom line--just like your mother told you--Be careful. Just track the seller or buyer and NEVER wire money to anyone. PayPal is good to use, and if you use a money order or personal check or cashier's check please check out the seller with a phone call first.
Watch out for those too good to be true deals. If it's a good instrument or piece of equipment, it probably won't be really cheap. Of course, there's always the exception to every rule. So what do I know? Not much.
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-12-08 15:22
I lost $125 using Paypal, after making a freak mistake. I'm not sure there is a lesson here, except to be careful no matter what method you use to pay.
I bid on and won a clarinet for $150 from someone whose email address was 'mdavison@etcetera'. Somehow I missed the automatic ebay response letters that automatically have the correct email embedded. When I sent the payment I manually entered the email address in the Paypal form, mistakenly entering 'mdavidson@etcetera'. It turns out there was someone possessing this 'wrong' address in the Paypal system. I realized my mistake two days later when the correct seller told me they hadn't been paid yet. I emailed the wrong person a few times and finally after getting no answer I gave the problem to the Paypal Complaint department, and they were able to get only about $25 back from the wrong account. So the wrong person got most of my money, never answered emails, and I think is a thief. Was this a scam? I don't see how, but it was a very easy mistake for me to make.
Another thing to be careful of!!
WT
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-12-08 15:58
Be careful also of a scam out there where you you may get an email asking you to got to a website to "update" your ebay account info. I have gotten this sent to two different addresses of mine. It is a bogus ebay address, that looks like an ebay web page. They ask you for all kinds of ebay account info, paypal, bank and credit card info. If you get anything like this, forward the email to spoof@ebay.com. Ebay also has info on their site on how to detect the bogus sites.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-08 16:19
Yes, Ed, you're absolutely right. That happened to my husband and now his eBay account has been suspended and he is listed as "no longer a registered user." Apparently he began filling out information before asking me if this was something he should be answering (he is kind of new to using eBay) and the next thing he knew he got an email from something that looked like eBay saying it had suspended him. We're holding our breaths hoping that nothing has gone out that could be a problem. I stopped him from finishing the information the fraudulent email was asking about. So, we're not exactly sure what happened. eBay told him someone had been using his eBay identity. He has 8 positive feedbacks and no negative and there's no record of anything that he bid on that he didn't personally bid on. It's a bit of a mystery. The frightening thing is, he used eBay to buy things for his company--construction tools, etc. His stuff was fairly high dollar items. He would bid on trucks, etc.
Bottom line--don't answer anything from an email that says it's eBay that asks for an update on information.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-08 17:29
Good advice,Granny. I have received that supposed eBay email twice. eBay tells us that they never solicit such information in that manner......still it's easy to believe that an eBay email that looks official isn't from them. How many postal mail letters do we get that appear to be important documents only to find out that they are comeons. Then you get one that looks official and you say "I won't be fooled again"....you open it to find it IS official. It's a jungle out there.
Bob Draznik
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2004-12-08 17:50
I've done many transactions on ebay and I've never been disappointed! My criteria for Feedback is 97% or above with people who've sold many times! I also note how a complaint is answered, there are a few screwballs out there (some even sell horns) and if you are careful, what great items you can buy!
Fred
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-12-08 21:09
I have been receiving requests to update both my ebay and my paypal data shortly after making purchases. The requests state that there is a problem, and that I should click on a link to enter my account data or else my account will be suspended.
The links look exactly like the genuine ebay/paypal sites, but I ignore them and my ebay activities have not been affected in any way.
It seems as if someone is trying to con auction winners into giving up private information.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-12-08 21:39
If you get such a request, forward it to spoof@ebay.com.
Most of the scammers look convincing, but if you are not addressed by name (your real name, not the login one), it is not official.
ebay only sends you email that will address you by name.
I note a sudden holiday time plethora of sellers with zero feedback numbers. Ask questions. Quality dealers respond quickly and knowledgeably.
Look for feedback from buyers that mention things like good communications, promptness, etc.
I have made purchases from some sellers that I have come to admire and respect, and even established friendships with. Likewise with many of my buyers. Again...ask questions!
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-12-09 04:43
Hi,
The link that Hans showed lays it all out and the advice by others really hits the nail on the head. I hate these types of scams and really feel bad for those that fall for them. Don't be fooled!
Another thing to look for is the use of language in the message. One of the expressions that always alerts me is something about "take time from your on-line experience." Now really, do regular users of this BB talk like that at any time?
When the one comes up about having received a payment for $175 from your Paypal, just go to Paypal, access your account, and you'll find there was no activity.
HRL
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-12-09 13:18
.....and I just got a Phishing email from MSN
Bob Draznik
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-09 14:00
I emailed the seller of a mouthpiece to inform him that another seller was using the exact photos and wondered about it. I had been watching this particular item for several cycles because it hasn't sold, so I think the guy I wrote is probably the true owner. He told me his "about me" page had been stolen and his information used and he was surprised about the other seller because he hadn't checked out the competition. I told him to let me know how it works out. He's in a bit of shock.
I had photos and information stolen from me about a new Leblanc Opus I was selling a couple of years ago. It made it impossible to reach my reserve price because the thief ran his phoney auction way below my price without a reserve. I kept getting emails from people telling me I had my instrument overpriced because there was another one "just like mine" on eBay that was much cheaper. The difference, I told them, was that I truly had the instrument and he was using my photographs and description and perhaps didn't even have an instrument to sell. He also had 0 feedback.
Don't buy from someone that has 0 feedback unless you've talked to them directly and know they're on the up and up. Use escrow if you need to with that and also pay with PayPal or go pick the instrument/item up in person if possible.
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Author: johnsonfromwisconsin
Date: 2004-12-09 15:03
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I may be the biggest jerk going, but I was taken twice on ebay recently when bidding on clarinets. The first time in September I "won" a new professional Amati. The buyer wanted a wire payment; I complied and never received the instrument.
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Be sure to always look at payment methods accepted. If they listed some legitimate payment methods then insisted on a wire, I'd have declined or would have offered to wire the money *after* the item had arrived. If they stuck to their wire demands, complain to Ebay, reneg on the transaction, and leave negative feedback.
I also have a problem with Ebay not indicating that a seller's address is a Box of some sort prior to the end of auction.
-JfW
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-09 15:09
JFW, I agree. Once again, if you're really interested in an item you should have time during the course of the auction to send and receive email from the seller. If you can get their phone number and speak with them personally you can generally get a "feel" for whether or not they're honest. A wire request is not a good thing, nor is a PO box--unless it's a very reputable seller and you have references for him/her.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-12-09 16:24
Brenda,
eBay members are not allowed to use another eBay user's pictures or descriptions in their listings or About Me page without the owner's permission. Listings that violate eBay's Picture and Description Theft policy may be removed early. Multiple violations of this policy can result in suspension
Search eBay Help for the topic 'Item Description and Picture Theft'
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-09 18:31
Yes, I am aware of that rule. EBay shut down the guy's eBay auction who had "stolen" my photos. It was a bad experience, but we have to stay on top of this stuff.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2004-12-09 20:47
BobD sez: ".....and I just got a Phishing email from MSN. Bob Draznik"
I don't think that is very clear. MSN sent this excellent warning to all of their customers. I thought it was so good I immediately sent it to all my friends and family alias. Here it is:
What is a "phishing" e-mail?
"Phishing" is a term used to describe fraudulent e-mail designed to steal your identity. These imposter e-mails may appear to come from MSN® or other reputable companies, but are actually from thieves masquerading as legitimate businesses. The e-mail will ask you to disclose, on a phony Web site or in a phony dialog box, personal information, such as your account data or Social Security number. The thieves then steal that personal information to harm your good name. Depending on the information you may have provided, they can access your accounts, open new ones, steal your funds and even commit crimes-all in your name.
How the thieves steal your personal information.
Phishing e-mails typically suggest that if you do not update your personal information, your account will be closed. The e-mail instructs you to click on a link that redirects you to a fake Web site. These "spoofed" sites look official and include logos and fonts used by the companies they imitate.
Look for these warning signs:
Urgent tone. The message urges you to "act quickly" or your account will be closed.
Spelling and grammatical errors. The wording may be sloppy and contain typographical errors and misspellings.
Request for financial information. They often ask for your e-mail address and password, first and last names, credit card numbers, bank account numbers, account PIN numbers and Social Security numbers.
Fake Web address. An "@" symbol in a Web site address may indicate that the source might be imitating a company or person (For example: www.microsoft@billing.com is fake). Or, if the address includes any words between "microsoft" and ".com" or "msn" and ".com," the Web site is fraudulent (For example: msn.example.com and msnbilling.com are not Microsoft® Web sites.)
Non-secure Web pages. Their sites and URL may look like official company sites, but they are not. Watch out for non-secure Web pages that ask for sensitive information. Secure sites use encryption technology to protect your information. They display a locked padlock at the bottom of your browser and add an "s" after http in the address bar (for example, https://signup.msn.com).
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Scam artists can paint attractive pictures of "valuable offers" and "great deals." Odds are, they're just looking for other ways to access your valuable personal information.
What can you do to help protect yourself?
Be suspicious. Messages threatening to terminate or suspend your account without your quick response should be treated as suspicious. Also, be wary of clicking on links in e-mail messages.
Always type in the URL of the Web page you want. Phishing scam e-mails include a link that takes you to a fake Web site. We recommend typing https://billing.microsoft.com in the address bar of your browser to ensure that you are visiting the legitimate billing section of the MSN site.
Scroll over the URL. If you move your mouse over the URL and numbers or a different URL appear, it's probably fraudulent.
Keep your account up to date. MSN customers can visit https://billing.microsoft.com to update personal account information. Most legitimate businesses, including Microsoft and MSN, will not ask for personal information via e-mail.
Recognizing legitimate MSN communications
Official e-mail to MSN members from MSN Member Services or Microsoft Online Services always arrives with the MSN butterfly logo on the left side of the e-mail envelope in the header. While a scam artist can add a butterfly to the e-mail message itself, no one except MSN Member Services or Microsoft Online Services can put the MSN butterfly in this location that you see before opening the e-mail itself.
If you receive a suspicious online solicitation, send an e-mail to abuse@msn.com to verify that the e-mail is authentic. Remember to always type in the e-mail address yourself.
What if you've received a suspicious phishing e-mail?
If you receive suspicious e-mail that appears to come from MSN, please notify us immediately via e-mail. Please do not forward the e-mail. Instead, open a new e-mail message, drag the envelope icon that represents the offensive e-mail into the new message and send the message to abuse@msn.com.
You should also forward the e-mail information to government agencies, such as the Federal Trade Commission (FTC)-which can be contacted via spam@uce.gov or 877.IDTHEFT (877.438.4338), or by accessing their Web site at http://www.consumer.gov/idtheft—and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) through the Internet Fraud Complaint Center at http://www.ifccfbi.gov The Anti-Phishing Working Group, an e-commerce industry trade association, can also be contacted at reportphishing@antiphishing.org.
What if you've been a victim of a phishing scam?
If you feel your personal information has been jeopardized:
- Close any accounts accessed or opened fraudulently.
- Change the passwords and PINs on all of your online accounts.
- File a report with your local police department or wherever the subsequent identity theft occurred.
- Contact each of the three major U.S. credit bureaus and place a fraud alert on your credit reports:
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Equifax:
1-800-525-6285
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Experian:
1-888-397-3742
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TransUnion:
1-800-680-7289
Learn more about online safety and security issues at http://safety.msn.com or http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/default.mspx.
Sincerely,
MSN Member Services
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: susieray
Date: 2004-12-09 22:55
I receive spoof emails almost daily that are supposedly from ebay asking me to update my info.....they always say that my account will be suspended if I do not update my info right away. I also receive similar emails asking me to update my Paypal account. I just forward the entire message to either spoof@ebay.com or spoof@paypal.com.
You can tell it's a fake right away because they will never address you by your name. It's always, "Dear valued PayPal customer" or something along those lines. An authentic email from Ebay or Paypal will always address you by your name and they never ask you to send information by email.
If you have Outlook Express you can open the email, click on "file" and then on "properties" and then on "details" and you can see where the email originated. If it's from eBay or Paypal it will say so.
I have had photos and descriptions stolen from my ebay listings several times, and as much as I hate being a tattletale I feel bad for the bidder who might win the item and get something different than what they think they are bidding on (or maybe get nothing at all, although I think usually people DO have a similar item for sale but they can't take decent pictures so they "borrow" them from other sellers). I always report it to ebay; if it's obvious that my listing started first and the other seller is using my photo ebay will end their auction right away.
I've also received those offers to purchase my items outside of ebay saying they'll send me a cashier's check for like $5000 when my item is only $300....I am supposed to deposit the money in my account and then wire them the change.....last time the "buyer" even offered to let me keep an extra $200 as a Christmas bonus from him! LOL......I knew it was a scam right away because I get these offers all the time. Every time I place a new ad on this website I get these scam offers within a day or two. But only recently have I been getting them through ebay. Last time I got one, I checked the person's ebay history and they had just signed on to ebay that very day. They sent me offers on two items I had just listed. I imagine they sent out many, many others and I really hope no one was stupid enough to fall for it. If you are a seller and you ever get these, report it to ebay ASAP and they will kick the person off ebay.
When I buy from another ebay seller I try to buy from sellers with 99% or higher positive but sometimes you just have to read the feedback comments. There are people out there who will leave a negative for trivial reasons. If a person has only sold maybe 50 items and they get just one negative it will affect their feedback rating more than it would on a person who has sold hundreds of items; you really have to read those negative comments to be sure.
sue
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-12-11 03:33
Those "pfishing" emails come to me often in the guise of email from banking and credit establishments. Not only are they fraudulent, but some have contained viruses as well. Don't even open them, just delete them.
Sue
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-12-11 12:55
Hi,
I just got 4 eBay emails cointaining the phrase "An inability to accurately verify your selected option of payment due an internal error within our processors." Now what does that mean???
This is exactly the type of language useage that can easily tip you off that you are being scammed or pfished. Do not reply!
HRL
PS I had 3 other phishing emails in my inbox this AM.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-11 15:31
Hank, you're right--that's not a "kosher" message from eBay. They're obviously phishing for some credit card information.
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The Clarinet Pages
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