 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-12-04 02:06
A few school-owned Bass Clarinets at my HS need to be repaired, so I spent a few hours yesterday testing them out, finding the problems with them and making a list of those problems. The problem is the local repair tech guys - Once I took my Bass in to them to get fixed (they're the only repair techs in town, which surprised me when I first found out, since we have a population of 250,000), was trying to tell them what was wrong with it, when one of them interrupted me in mid-sentence and said "oh sure, yeah, we'll fix whatever's wrong with it". A week later, I got the instrument back, and of the 3 problems, only 1 had been fixed. I ended up borrowing a pair of plyers from the garage and fixing the other 2 myself.
The next time I took an instrument in, I left a note in the case with all the problems w/the instrument written on it. As far as I could tell after getting the instrument back, the note was ignored if it was noticed at all.
Am I being inappropriate/rude in trying to tell these guys "how to do their job"? If this continues to happen, how would I go about developing my own tech skills? Are there books/movies/kits on the market for that, or would I go on ebay, buy a few cheap used Basses, and experiment with those until I learned something?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2004-12-04 02:10
if you pick up the horn, check it out at the shop before taking delivery. if the items you specified are not fixed, dont accept it, tell them to fix it right, and make is a priority since you wasted your time driving down there.
if its delivered to your band hall, play test it when the sales rep returns the horn, send it back with him if its not done right.
refuse payment until the specified problems have been addressed.
dont back down, you're the customer. a professional tech will not accept sloppy work - send it back if you're not satisfied
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-12-04 02:22
I agree with pewd.
As to telling them what you want fixed, I don't think that's wrong at all.
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: VermontJM
Date: 2004-12-04 02:26
I tell my techs what I need done. They don't play the instrument daily- they don't know it, so something that may be bothering you isn't obvious to them.
It's like taking a kid to the doctor- yeah, the doc does the diagnosis, but they usually ask what's wrong first....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hans
Date: 2004-12-04 02:46
I tell my repair tech why I'm leaving my instrument; I also ask him to fix any other problems that he may discover when he tests it (that can save me a subsequent trip to take it back again).
He often finds something that I had not noticed, because that's his field of expertise, and I'm grateful when that happens.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2004-12-04 04:12
A "professional" (read: "skilled labor") tech will not deliver a sloppy repair. A skilled tech welcomes customer input and prefers to work with the customer rather than, well... sorta like groping for an answer before the question's been asked -- then ignoring you when you offer to help. If the customer doesn't know what's wrong, it's up to the tech to analyze and inform, preferably while you wait and watch so you'll both see what needs to be done to correct the problem. Analysis usually takes less than two minutes. The better informed my customers are and I am, the better we both feel when the correction is done to their satisfaction... preferably play-tested by the customer before it leaves the premises. School repairs are a slight exception but, in that case, I play-test every instrument personally to make sure it's working right. All repairs are guaranteed for a year and I've had no returns for the five and a half years I've been in business. Personally speaking, I want my customers to tell me what they want done and I insist we go over it together to make sure we've identified the problem. I advise them that they're welcome to get other opinions as well so they can make as informed a decision as possible. It's their hard-earned money they're spending and they should expect noting less than full value service.
I don't know your situation first hand or the techs you deal with, Igloo-Bob, but it sounds as though they haven't heard of, or they're just insensitive to good customer relationships. You're definitely not being overbearing. In fact, I think you're being far too nice to them.
Techs in my area are happy to help serious do-it-yourselfers, by the way. When their horns come in for service the instruments are a pleasure to work on because they've been taken care of and generally require less 'make-up' work, things that have gone unattended to far too long. It costs less (less time) to fix ‘em too.
Since you are a bass clarinet player, it's not at all out of line to find a derelict horn to train yourself with. Find one that's really messed up and buy only the tools and materials you need as you go along. You'll learn a lot that way and you just might end up with a perfectly good backup instrument. You might even sell it to cover your expenses. That's what I did. I'm sure you'll find several BB techs willing to help you as much as possible by personal e-mail or directly to posts here. Of course direct, one to one, interaction with a local tech would be the ideal arrangement. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't find the sort you're doing business with acceptable though.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
Post Edited (2004-12-04 04:14)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-12-04 12:07
Ron is on the right track, here...
I stopped visiting my first tech, when I found many of the same problems after repeated trips.
Few repair shops will employ staff that is also accomplished on the instruments. They seem to be of the "squeeze and blow" technique.
This doesn't emulate real playing conditions - hence the leaks discovered.
Don't pay until satisfied.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-12-04 14:25
A simple answer to repair is:
1. Write down your problems/concerns on a note that you give to the repairperson (keep a copy for yourself).
2. If at all possible, be there with the repairperson for the entire repair process. If this isn't possible, get some assurance all your requests will be honored before you show up to pick up your horn.
3. Try your horn carefully before you pay for it. Do not pay for sloppy work, or if the horn doesn't work to your liking.
4. Do not return to a repairperson who hasn't done a great job of repairing your instrument. The repairperson may never get better, but hopefully your repair needs will become more specific and demanding. So, there's a chance you might "outgrow" a repairperson as you improve as a player.
5. As a last resort, you can send your horn, by insured mail, to a great repairperson anywhere these days, and get the work done properly. You might have to pay dearly for great repairwork, but you get what you pay for. Don't skimp on repairing your fine instrument.
Good luck,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-12-04 14:57
The manager of the store needs to be informed of this situation asap. He isn't going to want his store to get a reputation for not doing a good job. Repair shops are a great asset for music stores. A friend of mine sold his store out to Brook Mays Music just because they wanted the repair shop and his reputation for repairs. Now his store does most of the Brook Mays repairs (except for small stuff done in each one). Believe me, he would not stand for such a problem as you described.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2004-12-04 16:12
There is some good advice on this thread, but we should make sure that the posters are aware of the facts.
If I recall correctly, Bob, you are a high school student located in Alaska. And other posters might want to remember that the the current question concerns work being done on instruments owned not by Bob, but by his school.
This introduces a couple of extra concerns.
Because you are a student, you may not be able to control payment or take delivery of the instruments in question. Some techs do cut corners on school instruments because they cannot charge fully for the labor required to do the job right. This may be a problem with the store (if the tech is not the store owner) or with some agreement that has been made with your school system. I wouldn't be surpised to find out that such an agreement might limit the charges for an individual instrument.
But such agreements may also specify that the tech has to redo the work if your band director determines that it's not satisfactory--even after delivery has been taken.
Your concern about how to communicate with the tech is a legitimate one. Tell him (or show him if posslble) what the horn does wrong. That is YOUR area of expertise. Try not to get too much into the specifics of how to fix it. That is HIS area of expertise. Treat him with respect and defer to his expertise unless his work gives you a reason to doubt him.
And if he DOES give you reason to doubt him, there are two courses of action. If it is your instrument, and you are paying for the work, follow all the advice given above. He and anyone above him need to know if you're not satisfied with the work you're paying for.
If it is a school instrument and the school is paying for the work, talk to your band director. It is he or she who is actually doing business with the tech, and thus he or she who should decide how to deal with unsatisfactory performance. There are a lot of factors to consider from your band director's point of view.
As for YOUR instrument, vote with your feet by all means. Don't give repeat business to a tech who doesn't do the job. But if you are located in Alaska, find out what your options are for other techs before burning bridges with the ones you have locally.
Insured mail, UPS, etc. give you other options, but these can be expensive and time-consuming.
As for doing it yourself, minimize your use of plyers! <g> Pads aren't hard to replace one-at-a-time, and a lot of minor adjustments can be accomplished with adhesive-backed cork. I keep the Valentino synthetic cork in sheets 1/16, 1/32 and 1/64 thickness to deal with minor problems. It's not very costly, and it helps you to learn the art of working with instruments without doing permanent damage to anything.
Repair would be a good field to explore, although I think most decent techs are underpaid. It's a great sideline for a player or teacher, though.
Allen Cole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-12-04 16:34
When I drop my horn off with my tech I give him a list of specific things I want done. Then I give him carte blanc to fix anything else that he finds that needs fixing. But I always make sure that the things I specified are taken care of. Repairmen should listen to the customer. We know how our horns are supposed to play.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-12-05 02:59
Thanks all, for the responses/advice. I'll definitely voice my concerns to my band director. He's a pretty understanding guy, and will likely let me test out the instruments when we get them back before he pays.
One other question: Is cleaning sticky keys part of a standard fixing job? 3 of the 5 Basses I looked at yesterday had sticky keys, most notably, the register vents on all 3. Is that something I can expect should be fixed, or should I be doing that myself?
As for shipping instruments for tech work, I know that Peter Spriggs in Canada has a good reputation, and isn't too far from here in Anchorage. But I don't think that'd be an option for the high school - he's pretty expensive, I think, and odds are his work will be laid to waste with the next crop of freshmen Clarinetists come in and drop the instruments all over the place. But I'd definitely consider him for my own instrument.
And the idea of doing my own repairs seems pretty cool. I'm going to start looking on Ebay, as there always seems to be a good amount of near-death Basses being sold for low prices there, and I'll see what I can find. Thanks again to everyone for the responses.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2004-12-05 03:16
Sticky keys? I'd be suspicious whether the rest of the job was done right as well. There should be no sticky keys when the instrument is ready for pick-up. Period. The point is to make the instrument playable and that's up to the tech who accepts the job, not the customer.
- ron b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ned
Date: 2004-12-05 08:38
What do you usually tell the bloke who fixes your car?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-12-05 08:57
I very much doubt that the technician involved is even capable of fixing the items you mentioned to him, let alone quickly detecting and correcting the other things that you had NOT noticed, that would make you have to return for more servicing in the near future.
Change technician!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2004-12-05 09:25
Sticky keys should be a matter of "playing condition" in any case that I can think of--particularly if the register vent(s) is involved. At least a good cleaning is in order and parts/labor should be miniscule if keys are sticking rather than binding.
It would be interesting to know if the repair bills for these horns are itemized.
Allen Cole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-12-05 17:02
If you are a "serious" high school student who plays the bass clarinet, it is well worth the bucks to have your folks buy you your own "student grade" bass clarinet. What this will allow is for you to have your own instrument that can be kept in repair and out of the hands of others who may or nor give a damn about the horn.
It will cost more than a student clarinet, to be sure. But, the purchase price will be below that of the professional level clarinet that many serious high school folks acquire, and WAY below that of a professional level bass clarinet. Aside from the benefits described below, it will also serve as a lifeboat for the college level student who continues in music (and who will probably want to buy a pro horn at that point).
The long key arms and saucer shaped pads on a bass clarinet are particularly sensitive to bumps and poor handling (think dropped cases and the like), and I have had student after student who was going through living hell dealing with a school horn shared with others. Take away the "commonality of the horn" issue, and squeaking bass clarinets quickly become solid, useable instruments.
I'd go so far as to say that I'd rather have a student playing a privately owned student horn, one that is protected from the handling errors of others, than a professional model bass clarinet used by two or three others. What little you will gain from the better horn will be lost at the high school level, and will be many times offset by the mechanical issues involved with the common use. Plus, having one's own horn allows one to take the thing home from school and practice…an important point with those wanting to perfect their skills beyond the level of the band room.
Of my bass clarinet students back "in the day", I was able to convince three sets of parents of the wisdom of this course of action. All three students "blossomed" once they got their "own" horn, while a number of equally or more qualified students without their "own" horn never advanced (and in most cases became frustrated and quit).
My experience, of course. That of others may differ…
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-12-06 23:10
Thanks to everyone again for the responses and advice. I've now got a good idea of what to expect and how to discuss it with my director.
Terry Stibal said:
Quote:
If you are a "serious" high school student who plays the bass clarinet, it is well worth the bucks to have your folks buy you your own "student grade" bass clarinet.
I had been wanting to buy either the Selmer 37 or Buffet 1193-2 (definitely not student grade, though!) for a while, but had given up on the idea because of where I live (Alaska is very dry and cold, and I was afraid of cracked wood), until recently when I met someone up here who plays the Buffet model, and he said he hadn't had a problem with the weather messing with the instrument, just the obvious applies (no taking it out in negative degrees, etc). I am considering it again, now, since I plan on going to the local college (University of Alaska Anchorage), so it'll be cheap and I'll have the extra money to buy an instrument. Until that happens, though, I've thought on buying either the Yamaha YCL-221, which a friend owns and I quite enjoyed on my trial of it, or the Ridenour Eb Bass. Still decisions to be made, but I've definitely been thinking on what you suggest, and with any luck, can make it happen in the next year.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
