 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-12-01 02:34
We all know who he is. And he's been pretty much uncontested principle of the NY Philharmonic for, well, a very very long time. And perhaps he isn't going to retire any time soon. But let's face it, time doesn't stop, and he's going to have to be replaced at SOME point for SOME reason.
I was just wondering who out there would be up to the task of trying to fill his shoes. It'd be quite a spot to land, and of course would only probably even be considered by already established top professionals as it is (meaning principles of other symphonies/orchestras, or perhaps a former international soloist).
I think it'd be 'neat' if Mark Nuccio were to take over. Almost like a promotion.
Or maybe Julian Bliss, by the time Drucker decides to retire, will have changed his mind and decided that he would like a principle clarinetist's job. I think it'd be pretty cool going from one virtuoso to another.
I just thought I'd bring it up. See if anyone has any thoughts on who they think should (or even if they just COULD) be a suitable replacement for someone with such a commanding presence in the clarinet community.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-12-01 02:43
Wow, I've never thought of it before. It almost blows my mind.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-12-01 02:53
The same was asked when Blayman, Brodie, Marcellus, Gigliotti, etc.... decided to step down.
Someone always comes forward, the baton is passed, and life goes on....GBK
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-12-01 05:56
ME
ok, just joking
it'll be one of the people who DIDNT get the minnesota job
donald
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-12-01 11:44
First, anyone notice how Drucker does not age? I think he must have somehow made one of those mythical pacts and he will stay there forever.
Second, IF he ever leaves, someone else may sit in the principal chair, nobody could ever replace him. :-)
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2004-12-01 11:56
In my (former) day job, my boss was such an outstanding (technical, managerial, administrative) multi-tasker that they had to hire three people to "cover" for him when he retired.
Is that the Drucker replacement solution - hire three players, each one an absolutely perfect musician/expert in ONE of the three "ranges" of the instrument?
Nobody would have to play across the break, and each clarinet could be uncompromisingly tuned for the range in which it was to be played.
Bet it would be fun to watch them run arpeggios, too.
JDS
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Author: Musiccla
Date: 2004-12-01 12:36
I don't know if Michael Russinek would want to go to NYC, but he would be the logical choice. Bliss is very good but he still needs time to grow. Except for Ricardo, there probably isn't a player out there who can surpass Russinek currently.
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2004-12-01 12:41
On the aging thing...
Maybe he and Dick Clark are good friends and trade secrets? I swear Dick Clark looks YOUNGER every year. Maybe they're aliens...
:)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-12-01 13:03
After fifty years nonstop as principle of NY Phil, I'm thinking that by the time he DOES retire, Julian Bliss may have more than enough experience to be able to take over that position.
I was also thinking, although completely illogical and it'd never happen, it would sure be an awesome thing if when he retired he was allowed to choose or help choose his replacement. As in allowing him to listen in in the auditions and giving him a "veto" power for whoever they thought might fit the bill.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-12-01 14:09
Drucker entered the NY Phil in '48 as a second and Eb player and then I think he became principal in '60. He has a few years to go to hit 50 years as principal, but with his energy, I have no doubt he can make it if he wishes. I always enjoy the fact that he still looks as if he is having the greatest time and does it with such passion and flair.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-12-01 14:15
Stanley is the consummate musician who truly enjoys what he does and inspires all players around him.
When I recently asked Stanley "Wind Him Up and Off He Goes" Drucker (as one NYPO cover conductor calls him) how much longer he'll play with the NYPO, he replied:
"Why leave? It's any easy gig."
Since he now often only plays the first half of NYPO concerts, he said that if he catches the train just right, he is already home by the time the concert is completed ...GBK
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-12-01 22:50
How about Richard Stoltzman ? (heh heh heh).
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Author: Gazebo Dealer
Date: 2004-12-02 01:29
Manasse?! Sabine OR Paul Meyer?! Karl Leister?! In addition to, how active is Richard Hawkins when it comes to playing in an ensemble? I would love to see Mark Nuccio take the position.
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Author: steve s
Date: 2004-12-02 01:50
is there is something I am missing? I have been out of the loop for awhile, and just became aware of Julian Bliss and his story. You can listen to him play at the Indiana University alumni web site. Notwithstanding his age, I frankly wasn't all that impressed. Based on a single recording, I would say that he has a lot of developing to do. Furthermore, his story appears to be used as a marketing tool by the Indiana University school of music.
I've never been able to understand the attraction of child prodigies. Watching a young kid play with highly developed technique and apparent "emotional maturity" far beyond his or her years gives me a weird feeling, not at all pleasant. in my opinion, playing something like the Brahms clarinet trio requires life experience that hopefully no child would experience. Indeed, some of the pathos expressed in that piece I hope many adults never experience. How can you play the first movement and second movement from the Poulenc sonata if you have never had your heart broken years ago?
s.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-12-02 02:05
steve s wrote:
> Furthermore, his story
> appears to be used as a marketing tool by the Indiana
> University school of music.
I don't think so. He was playing in a professional capability prior to his attending Indiana, and while of course they're going to use his story to attract new students (as any high-profile student story is used) I don't think that England's Proms need to - and he's played at the Proms.
> IHow can you play the first
> movement and second movement from the Poulenc sonata if you
> have never had your heart broken years ago?
Interesting. I never thought of the 1st & second movements being something that deep. I really enjoy the piece, but the 1st movement especially hits my "anger" button, not my "heartbroken" button. Now, the wonderful schmaltz of Tschaikowsky's is a different matter altogether.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-12-02 02:17
Quote:
How can you play the first movement and second movement from the Poulenc sonata if you have never had your heart broken years ago? Wow. I never made the connection but now it makes sense. When I first heard the second movement of the Poulenc Sonata it was on a mix CD that my old high school band director made for me (a fellow clarinetist, I took a few lessons with him). And it moved me so much, I played nothing but the poulenc sonata for about a week straight, every time getting wierd feelings and wondering WHY this particular song moved me so much . . .
And strangely enough, it WAS very shortly after breaking up with the ex . . .
US Army Japan Band
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Author: ken
Date: 2004-12-02 03:45
Filling Drucker's shoes would be like attempting to replace inimitable personalities such as Elvis Presley and Jim Morrison, or timeless musicians Coltrane, Parker, Bernstein, Copland and the like. With living legends such as Drucker [real or perceived] you don't replace them, you pass the torch to a new breed. As most would consider him a major talent, David Shifrin comes to mind as a strong contender. However, I understand throughout his career he's been fond of moving around a lot. He's also had a penchant for turning down jobs after wining auditions and picking up stakes suddenly while dumping major symphony gigs. An extremely versatile player, his strong suit is chamber music and as soloist. Still, musically I believe he'd be a marvelous choice. v/r Ken
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-12-02 09:51
I've played the Poulenc sonata (when I was still playing that kind of music), I've had my heart broken, and I really can't see the connection.
I think what affects much more than life experience is your personality. Besides technique, your persoanlity is what comes out when you play, at least that is what I think.
About Stanely Drucker and Julian Bliss, I actually never heard them play before, and only know their names from this forum (foreign orchestral players are not that famous here, only soloists).
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-12-02 14:17
steve s wrote: >Based on a single recording, I would say that the has a lot of developing to do.
Of course he has, this guy is just fifteen! I think he plays really well already and if he continues to keep up the good work, he can end up really far. After all, he can´t be that bad if he has already done a "decent" recording.
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Author: mystery science dieter
Date: 2004-12-02 14:54
>>>>I have been out of the loop for awhile, and just became aware of Julian Bliss and his story. You can listen to him play at the Indiana University alumni web site. Notwithstanding his age, I frankly wasn't all that impressed. Based on a single recording, I would say that he has a lot of developing to do.<<<<
[ Deleted - no need to get snarky ... Mark C. ]
I would pay to see Ricardo Morales and Alessandro Carbonare go head to head in the finals of an audition.
But if I wanted to actually hire someone for the job, it would be Tom Martin.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-12-02 14:54
IMHO, Ted Oien, the principal in Detroit, is the best player out there. Assuming he wants the New York job, he'd be ideal for it.
----------------------------------------------------------
I've always been puzzled by the "Allegro tristamente" marking for the first movement of the Poulenc Sonata. Almost all players use a bouncy, almost satirical style, and I can't find much that I could play so as to draw a tear. Has anyone found a solution?
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-12-02 22:54
"I've always been puzzled by the "Allegro tristamente" marking for the first movement of the Poulenc Sonata."
That's a good question. I'm going to put some thought on the other thread- Drucker/Poulenc
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-12-02 23:26
re Poulenc 1st mvt- Allegro Tristamente
Carbonare has an explanation of this on his website
the "heart broken" comment (in regards to the first mvt) was probably refering to the middle section of the mvt.....
at any rate there is a tendancy to make this mvt a bit nasty- a bit more like the Nielsen concerto in temperament (the same happens to the Suttermeister Cappricio...). THIS IS A BIT OFF TOPIC, but neither piece need be as aggressive as they are often played....
meanwhile
NY Phil Principal? Riccardo vrs Alessandro would something to hear, that's true!
Try this one for size- Frank Celata.....
donald
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-12-03 00:03
Donald ... I'm sure out American cousins would NEVER have heard of the wonderful Frank Celata ... trust me.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2004-12-03 01:16
The job will go to me. I'd like to think an Englishman has the balls to do it. I know i'd be able to take over from Andrew Marriner in the LSO. Regards Julian Bliss, he has no chance he has no experience of orchestral playing even at the highest level, al he can do is play the clarinet well for a child/teenager his age.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: vin
Date: 2004-12-03 02:11
let's face it, there are so many great players and so much left to chance in an audition (assuming its run fairly) that mssrs. nuccio, morales, martin, rusinek, hara, oien, mcgill and people who aren't being mentioned here all have a shot, if they were to audition. lucky new york phil!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-12-03 15:09
vin -
I half agree and half disagree. There are many great players out there, but for a position like the NY Philharmonic, more is needed -- particularly, experience as principal in an orchestra just below top level. Also, they'll be looking for someone the right age -- old enough to be reliable and have good experience, but young enough to be there for the long term. Maybe not as long as Drucker, but he's unique.
Only maybe half a dozen players have the necessary combination of playing ability, experience and age, and the Philharmonic management already knows who they are -- if not from knowing the clarinet world themselves, then by recommendations from Drucker.
Cleveland got burned with David Shifrin, who came and went in a blink. Philadelphia got burned twice, with Burt Hara and Sam Caviezel. These guys are great players, but they either couldn't do the job or decided there was too much pressure.
When Harold Wright was amazing everyone in the National Symphony, everyone knew he would get the next major job. When Gino Cioffi announced his retirement in Boston, the word was that Wright would of course go there, not because the fix was in, but because he was the obvious choice.
The same thing happened when Larry Combs was in Montreal. Everyone knew he was there to get experience and would get Cleveland or Chicago as soon as the opening came. The same with Drucker, who became principal in Indianapolis (age 16) and Buffalo (age 18), and then came to New York and sat next to (and, reportedly, intimidated) Robert McGinnis for three years until he retired.
Mike Rusinek is certainly qualified for a top job. I think Pittsburgh is as good as any US orchestra, but obviously he wanted Philadelphia, if only for its unique prestige. Who knows whether he would come to New York. Frankly, I think Pittsburgh is the better orchestra.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: CPW
Date: 2004-12-03 17:50
This thread is beginning to resemble the tabloids.
The full stories might be somewhat different and might involve factors that are personal or private.
Perhaps some things are best left unsaid.
Alternatively how about a musical fantasy league like the office guys do with football (and gamble on it)? (just kidding)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-12-03 17:56
Sure beats discussing ligatures for the thousandth time, ya gotta admit...
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Author: CPW
Date: 2004-12-03 18:02
Whoa....a fantasy ligature league. Neato!
![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-12-03 18:18
If my information is correct, Burt's decision was driven neither by his lack of ability to cut the gig or take the pressure. He is an incredible player and could have held that job for a career, but there was a personal situation that took priority.
I wouldn't count Mark Nuccio out for this gig. He's carrying a lot of the sand already as Associate Principal, and doing an exceptional job with it.
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Author: Padington1
Date: 2004-12-03 19:49
I feel a job, such as Principal Clarinet of the New York Philharmonic, should be auditioned for and open for anyone who feels they are capable enough to take on the honorable position.
As a local in Cincinnati, I was able to attend a Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra Concert which featured Dances of Galanta and the "Italian" Symphony by Felix Mend. What a dynamite clarinet section they have going here in Cincinnati! I have heard my share of concerts throughout the United States and this group is just unreal. Richard Hawley brings so much to the table every time he gets out on that stage. He is just simply an amazing musician.
As far as New York is concerned, Richard Hawley is the man to do it.
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-12-03 20:29
Paquito D'Rivera, maybe? Sure, most of his work is in latin jazz, but he plays some awesome classical as well. Any reason why he wouldn't be qualified if he wanted it?
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Author: frank
Date: 2004-12-03 21:11
Burt Hara left Philly for a couple reasons, and not because of the pressure or lack of ability. The MAIN reason was to be closer to his kids, who were still in Minneapolis. He loved being in the Philly orchestra and they loved him there as well. For years, Philly kept asking Burt back to rejoin the orchestra, which he refused to do. He also said that one day realized... there he was, in the Philadelphia Orchestra, all alone, away from his family, living in the dorms because he hadn't found a place to live yet, and it was still cold out! I guess you had to be there.  He was happy when Ricardo won the job because he figured the orchestra would quit calling him and asking him to come back. Some problem to have huh? lol
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Author: senator1214
Date: 2004-12-03 21:55
I dont mean to stir the pot on this, but julian bliss in not the only good clarinet player out there. Here in New York In Juilliard and Manhattan school and mannes and queens there are tons of young clarinet players (not to forget myself LOL) that have the potental to someday take over when stanley leaves. But anyway my vote is for Mark Nuccio he has aleady been a fantastic addition to not only the clarinet section as associate principal but to the whole orchestra. And I think it would be a great event for the clarinet world (if you will) for more people to hear this star in THE philharmonic!
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Author: Dmitri
Date: 2004-12-03 22:24
Being amused I will throw out my guesses:
Ricardo Morales: would't it be a heck of a way to leave a legacy- win principal in not one, not two, but three major orchestras.
Gregory Smith: didn't he already win the Cincinnati Symphony principal audition back in the nineties? Who is to say he couldn't do it again. Not to knock any CSO clarinetist, but I have always slightly favored his playing over his co-workers. All four are amazing though!
David Shifrin: I will go with this one. Is his New Haven position a mere warmup for better things? Amazing player in all ways.
Geez...I feel like I am talking about free agents now in sports, so I will quit!
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Author: vin
Date: 2004-12-03 22:27
ken- i wasnt implying that someone with no experience would win, just that perhaps someone not previously mentioned such as richie hawley, greg raden etc. etc. might as well.
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