 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Marie
Date: 2004-11-20 06:16
Please give me your skilled, professional advice regarding this horrible discovery I've made:
I have had a Buffet Prestige bass clarinet in my possession for 16 hrs before I checked for cracks. I found a hairline crack at the top of the neck, about an inch and 3/8s. It goes through the wood at the neckjoint attachment, however, I do not see it through the regular width of the wood below.
It's under five years old. It lives in a very dry climate. Cracking is very easy to do here.
I received it prior to a rehearsal, played it for an hour. Packed it up, got a ride in a warm car, just outside the door, and returned home within five minutes. It sat overnight in it's case until I opened it up, 16 hours later. As I pulled the bell out, I saw a dent, and then thought that I should have checked the instrument in the performance hall before I left (but stupidly didn't). That was when I found the crack.
It is possible that I cracked it? How bad does this sound? The area I live does not have repair people savvy enough to handle this type of damage. Suggestions for professional repair people on west coast or midwest?
The owner of the clarinet is out of town. She was very reluctant to loan it to me (I'm subbing her gig), but did so for the dress and concert. I do not know if she checked for cracks before leaving town. When she returns, she has a gig all next week. If she has to use it, are there precautions to take to not increase the damage? Thank you.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-11-20 14:37
Cracks aren't particularly predictable. But the odds that it cracked in the 16hrs you had it before noticing the crack are pretty slim. Not zero . . . but slim.
Sorry you found yourself in a very awkward situation.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-20 15:41
Was she using a humistat or dampit in the case (and it were wet) when you got it?
Not using one is asking for cracks.
Highly unlikely that you cracked it! I would call up Morrie Backun or Clark Fobes and ask them what to do with the clarinet (possibly apply crazy glue to the crack, etc)
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Author: Marie
Date: 2004-11-20 18:20
I checked the dampit yesterday and it was dry. It looks dry again today (wetted it yesterday).
I've notified the spouse who will break the news. I'll offer to pay for it if they believe I cracked it.
I feel terrible about this. Especially considering she was so reluctant to let me use it in the first place.
Mark this one up for not borrowing other people's instruments. Not borrowing is very difficult when subbing for a bass gig, and do not play enough bass to justify an expensive purchase.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-20 18:37
I think that the Dampits dry out too quickly thus protection is not always working. That's why I use the Humistat instead.
There are other non-musical humidity products that Tobacco stores carry
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Author: Marie
Date: 2004-11-20 21:15
I emailed Clark, who promptly replied.
He said he's no longer doing repair work. He suggested Keith Bowen from Portland. I'm about to search for him.
I'll ask Backun, but Canada usually takes a long time to mail.
Thanks
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-20 21:21
Marie - I said those name just for advice. They both are really busy so maybe not the place to send it, but they would have advice about not making the crack any worse, etc.
Woodwind Brasswind has repair techs that fix instruments and the cost would probably be very reasonable.
What town are you in?
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Author: Marie
Date: 2004-11-21 01:16
I just read an article by Chicago woodwind repairman, Edmund Nielsen, "Cracks in Woodwind Instruments"
"Surface cracks can be pinned and further trouble to the player eliminated, but if neglected and if expansion and contraction are allowed to continue without the benefit of pins, the crack can eventually go all the way through to the bore. Once this has occurred, it is sometimes considered advisable to have the wood of the upper joint replaced."
Since my crack is through the wood at the neckjoint opening, could this suggest that the crack has been expanding/contracting for more than one use? Or, have folks seen cracks go to the bore the moment they crack?
I will offer to pay for repairs regardless, but for my own peace of mind, the more solid support of the crack already existing, before my fingers touched it, the better. In the end, it's all speculation, anyway.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2004-11-21 02:57
OK, let's get a grip here. I assume the top joint has a ring around the neck tenon socket. Right? (I don't know Buffets, but I'd assume they do.) If so, is the ring loose? Loose enough to turn, or even come off?
I'm asking because my Selmer bass developed a crack right about this time last year, at the top of the LOWER joint. Turns out that the wood had shrunk as the Fall air got drier, and the ring around the tenon socket had become loose (loose enough to turn) and, since it wasn't fitting snugly enough around the lower joint, my horn developed a STRESS crack because the wood expanded as the upper joint was pushed into it.
So it wasn't dryness in the air that was the immediate cause of the crack; it was a loose ring.
In your immediate circumstances, I can't imagine you did anything that would have resulted in a crack. At least, not from what you're saying. That being the case, if a normal playing situation causes a horn to crack, the horn MIGHT have cracked no matter who was playing it; also, before beating yourself up too bad over a crack in a horn you had in your hands for a fast 16 hours, ask yourself this: if cracking is a big issue where you live, WHO is more responsible for conditioning a horn so as to lessen its likelihood of cracking? The owner!! Who is best able to administer oil treatments, and maintain a constant level of humidity in the case over time? The owner! Has she ever mentioned what she does (if anything) to minimize the chances of the horn cracking? (that's how you would know how active a concern cracking is with her.)
Unfortunately, you can't say with 100% certainty that you had nothing to do with the crack. All I'm trying to point out is that there IS responsibility on both sides, and there's a "luck-of-the-draw" aspect to this; for whatever reason, it was the horn's time to crack. That it happened in your hands is unfortunate, and I guess you're on the hook for something. I just wouldn't take too much on, if I were you.
Listen, you sound so distraught over the damage, and so conscientious about the whole episode, and so eager to make things right, that I'm thinking if there's an ideal candidate to lend something of great value to, you'd be it. Wanna borrow the Maserati sometime?
Good luck--
dougR
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Author: Marie
Date: 2004-11-21 21:35
Thank you DougR. Maintenance records up to date? Oil changes?
I returned the horn to her spouse and we looked it over. Yes, the ring around the crack is loose, and can be removed. She's also been using a violin dampit that dried up within 12 hours of wetting it the second time. Thus the upper joint is already dried and shrunk.
The neckjoint is metal, so I don't know if that would create stress on the outer wood insert of the upper joint.
Shipping it from Alaska will be a cost. A few repair people who I've contacted suggest super glue and also tape for now - most say, 'don't play it.'
I'll be chatting with her on Monday/Tuesday. I'll help them make arrangements to send it to good repair people, and play the rest by ear.
And chill out. Perhaps a sporty ride would do the trick ... but I ain't driving.
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Author: William
Date: 2004-11-22 14:51
If my Buffet Prestige low C bass clarinet developed a crack, I would take it to our local music stores repair department and let my favorite woodwind repairperson Mary Jones take care of it: http://www.ward-brodt.com/.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2004-11-23 12:07
Hey Marie--
My repair guy noticed the crack in my bass. I had taken the horn in because the right hand had gone totally screwy--reason being, the retainer ring around the top part of the lower joint also has the lower finger-ring-assembly post soldered to it, and when the ring began to slip (due to wood shrinkage), everything went out of alignment.
His solution was NOT banding or pinning or gluing--just keep the damn ring tight!! As long as the ring is tight, the crack's not going anywhere. Intuitively, of course, you'd want to "Do Something" about the crack, but his reasoning strikes me as sound, so I'm forgoing any other repairs at this point. Of course, with a non-adjusting ring, some action might be in order, but the main preventative here, I THINK, is to keep the rings tight!
By the way, for what it's worth, I have a nice Ramirez classical guitar that developed cracks in the top along the fingerboard. I asked the repair guy ($275 later) if humidifying would have prevented the cracks. His answer was that it's not humidity per se that causes cracks, it's exposing a guitar to EXTREMES of humidity, and that humidifiers in his experience can't maintain a stable enough humidity, since they inevitably dry out, are re-humidified & re-introduced into the case, and thereby contribute to the extremes of humidity that cause cracks in the first place. Based on that, I've thrown out all my DAMPITS. (That humidity gizmo pictured earlier in the posts does look as if it might be useful for maintaining stable humidity, though.)
AND, I'm keeping those rings tight, on ALL my clarinets. (in fact, I'm going to go & check them, RIGHT NOW.)
cheers
Doug R
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-11-23 14:25
David B - TKS for the pic of the "humidistat" I looked up your ref. to its thread and noted that I never did find and post its patent #, will now do so. I made a quickie search using "clarinet AND humidity" turning up a couple of pats using a moist "salt" as the regulating component, try US 6,620,992 for a bagpipe-reed moisturizing device, interesting. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-11-23 15:51
D B - The "Humidifier Device" Is US 3,431,038, 1969 , too early for easy copying, but is viewable, it has 4 earlier pats cited. I believe you can make a USPTO search via this # and find later pats in which Berliner is cited. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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