 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2004-11-19 12:00
Is there a clear historical account of why the "usual" clarinet is keyed in Bb?
Or is it losts in the mists?
Or does Bb just sound "better" - my ear isn't that good - than the other options?
JDS
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-11-19 13:41
From what I understand, tone quality is the main reason the "everyday" clarinet is in Bb. There is indeed a C clarinet, pitched evenly with the piano and other C instruments, but the sound was deemed too shrill and piercing to be a standard use clarinet. Solution: lengthen the thing and drop its pitch a whole tone.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-11-19 13:52
I thought it had something to do with it's range being ideal - and the need for an A clarinet to easier play the sharp keys.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-11-19 14:02
Well summarized, R D, Lengthing the "tube" another inch or so produces a cl "keyed" in A which many think is Too "mellow/dull" toned for common use. The entire family is discussed at length in ?all? of our "good books", I partic. like Rendall and Brymer, and more recently Al Rice's beautifully- researched "Cl in the Classical Period" which answers more questions than I can think of. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-11-19 18:11
A related issue is why all nearly all band instruments are pitched in either Bb or Eb. Why these keys exactly? Why not C and F? Or A and D? It may be that the clarinet in Bb sounds uniquely nice (though I think it is more a matter of what we are used to than any inherent superiority) but it is difficult to believe that Bb trumpets sound MUCH better than A trumpets, or Eb basses MUCH better than F basses.
So why these keys in particular?
In fact it seems that the original saxophone family consisted of two subfamilies, in Bb and Eb for band use and in C and F for orchestral use. But the sax never caught on in orchestras, so the C and F instruments fell into disuse. (The C-melody and C-soprano were "reinventions", which fell into disuse in their turn.)
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-19 19:20
Very interesting. Perhaps the clarinet, being a later invention (after trumpets and the like) were made to be able to match playing in THOSE keys anticipating that the wind instruments should pitched more similarly (we'll just forget about those pesky horn players for now . . . )
But why are those pitched in Bb to begin with? That's a good question. I could only bring up possibilities based on why I would consider doing something like that, but maybe I'll step back and wait for one of the many people that I consider to be practically "all-knowing" to chime in and let us know the REAL reason.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-19 19:31
I cannot think of any reason why instrument in another key should have another tone quality.
I think this "keying variety" is just a BAD MESS and everyone would be happier if all instruments were in C! Why must my clarinet sound one tone lower or why do I have to learn "wrong" fingerings?! I hate it!
Post Edited (2004-11-19 19:33)
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Author: Camanda
Date: 2004-11-19 20:08
It's not the key that makes the C instrument have a lackluster tone quality. It's the size, which then "determines the key" if we are to use the same fingerings as the rest of the family. Its overall bore width/length proportion forces it to sound less than pleasant.
Amanda Cournoyer
URI Clarinet Ensemble, Bass Clarinet
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-11-19 20:49
having all instruments in C would be a catastrophy. You would have to learn a different set of fingers for Different instruments. A sax player would have to learn a set of fingers for Alto and Bari and a completely different set for Tenor and Soprano. I can understand wondering why we need a Bb and A clarinet (since the difference in range is practically meaningless from a compositional standpoint), but what about the Eb. The range of this instrument is significantly different from the Bb that it makes since in some writing. You'd have to learn all new fingers to playing them (if they were both in "C").
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-11-19 22:21
I think you are writing about the MUSIC being in C, rather than the INSTRUMENTS being in C. The two are totally different concepts.
BTW recorder music is usually in C, in spite of the different sizes of recorder, so players DO need to learn two note names for each particular fingering.
If all the instruments were in C, then gradations in size of instrument would be a full octave apart.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-20 02:01
C absolutely makes a different timbre than the Bb clarinet.
And there are C melody Saxes if you need to go the C route.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-11-20 05:31
"It's not the key that makes the C instrument have a lackluster tone quality. "
I disagree that the C clarinet has a lackluster tone quality. I've been asked ot play it by some conductors in orchestral music in which the composers have written specifically for it. Having worked on it quite a lot I now enjoy using it in most of the situations it is called for. It has a character of it's own, and is also very good for light articulated passages (especially with oboe).
It would be a shame to only use C instruments. Think of the character you would lose from not using clarients in C, E-flat and basset horn!
"what about the Eb. The range of this instrument is significantly different from the Bb"
It's possible to play as high on a B-flat as you can play on an E-flat. I think it's the character of the instrument that is more important.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-11-20 17:52
On the subject of "why E-flat and B-flat instead of C & F?" There really are differences. I think that we'd acknowdlege that there is some difference by between B-flat and A clarinet. I might be harder to discriminate between Bb and C trumpet, but then we are not trumpet players. Consider the difference between and E-flat alto clarinet and an F bassett horn. In fact, I imagine that a few of the Klezmer folks might be frustrated with the difference between D and B-flat clarinet.
I think that this is why saxophones have come to where they are. E-flat alto and baritone saxophones are very easy to work with. Admittedly, I don't know how they might sound or respond in F. The tenor sax is a little more squirrelly to work with, but its idiosyncracies [I apologize for the spelling] have led to it being one of the most colorful instruments around. But the B-flat tenor has still been much more successful than the C melody. I don't think that anyone ever really got total satisfaction from C saxes, and there are people now trying to design a new one. But there is controversy over whether it should be more like and alto than a tenor, etc. Of course, it's unlikely to be like either one...
On transposing instruments in general...
The Clarinetist's answer to Stepan was very important, even if we're not sure it goes with the original thread. This is a question that 'sleeps' with many school band kids, and doesn't get addressed until I ask a new high schooler for his F scale and he responds with a G scale. This transposition thing IS troubling, but it IS important and it IS worth it. I hope that some of our younger players are reading the mail here.
Some folks confuse concert key with their transposed key. It's probably a subject for another thread, but at least here we have some info on why the tranposed keys are used.
Allen Cole
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-20 18:08
I don't like the C nor the D Clarinet at all.
They to me are as accoustically proper as the Viola.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-11-20 19:02
David- C clarinets, D clarinets and violas all continue to exist because some composers found their particular tonal characteristics interesting. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant.
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2004-11-21 00:47
What's wrong with the viola? IMO, it is an incredibly beautiful instrument.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-11-21 00:58
The viola is a lovely instrument. However, its resonating chamber is too small for the length of the strings. This causes it to not speak as fully or piercingly as a violin or cello. They, like the double bass, have their own unique tone color, which is nice in its own right, but as they are generally not as clear or dominant, they are much less often treated as a lead instrument (hence violists are often particularly thankful to have the melody where it can be heard).
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-21 03:40
The viola produces what are called "wolf tones" which are due to it's acoustical design.
I like the viola too, just stating that there are other instruments which have acoustical issues too.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-11-21 08:37
Well, the B-flat clarinet does appear to be a good compromise of a lot of factors. The C horn is a different story to me. It doesn't seem to compromise the bright and dark as well. (to my taste, at least) I wonder if it's a matter of having the horn proportional to the reed or the mouthpiece that's the issue.
Allen Cole
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Author: marcia
Date: 2004-11-22 01:26
I have heard the term "wolf tone" but do not know what it is. Explain please David.
Please and thank you.
Marcia
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-11-22 03:32
As acoustically proper as the viola - that's a interesting remark - based on what??
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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