 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-11-20 09:13
I just thought that I would share my experience with the Tom Kooiman Etude thumbrest, as not many people seem to have tried them and I found it hard to find info when I was thinking about trying one out.
First of all, let me say that in the past I have had problems with my right wrist, to the point where my specialist wanted me to have surgery; I chose not to risk it and have found a better way to use my existing thumbrest. I have also had my thumbrest moved up quite high, and the point of contact is directly over the cuticle and thumbnail.
In the first 5 minutes, the Kooiman was OK. It makes you feel like you're holding something MUCH thicker than a clarinet and can free some passages up (I was playing 1st movement of the Weber Eb concerto) but others actually came out more difficult for my fingers to get around, which I thought odd considering that now there was basically no tension in my hand, fingers, thumb, arm, wrist, or shoulders. Also, the position the thumbrest sits, on the first part of the thumb, makes your clarinet feel like it is going to topple over in the opposing direction while holding it: it puts off your center of gravity.
The bit that actually goes over the thumb hurts after about 20 minutes, as now your thumb rest is over a section of your thumb that is softer and directly over bone!
I used it on my Bb today in an orchestra rehearsal and it's inconvenient at best. When you're switching from A to Bb (ala Swan Lake), I had a hard time finding the position my thumb should be in without taking my eyes away from the music/conductor making a quick change. And when you put it on or have to adjust it, it makes many loud clicking noises which it never welcome in the middle of a rehearsal.
On top of this, I've used it for a total of about 3 hours, and already the plastic housing, installed onto the body of the instrument by means of screws that required holes in the body of my instrument to be made wider, became a little loose and subsequently broke, rendering my Bb useless until I have my original thumbrest put back on by my tech during the week.
Unfortunately, living in Australia, I paid a LOT for this - US$19.95 for the thumb rest, US$28 for shipping, and AU$33 to have it installed - totalling just under AU$100.
I am VERY dissappointed with the quality and design of this thumbrest, and what makes me even more dissappointed is that I've heard nothing but good things about it until now. Tom Kooiman and Music123.com will be hearing from me.
Any further questions or comments welcome.
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Author: Henrik
Date: 2004-11-20 09:53
I have a Kooiman Etude installed on my B-flat. I have not experienced any of the problems mentioned by "LeWhite". Only the clicking that could be disturbing if you ever have to re-adjust the thumbrest during rehearsal/performance. In my opinion it's a vast improvement over the standard thumbrest. I have used it for about two years and not had any durability issues. I used the holes and screws for the original thumbrest to fit it (Buffet RC).
It might be worth mentioning that I changed to the Kooiman to prevent developing serious hand problems.
I am considering getting a second Kooiman for my A-clarinet.
Henrik
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-20 13:16
WHY did not you buy that fine looking adjustable proffesional thumbrest for 165
dollars? I think it is a bit stupid to complain about a thumbrest for 20 bucks... When it is not adjustable it surely will not fit every hand...
Post Edited (2004-11-20 13:21)
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-11-20 13:27
Nah I got the black one, they didn't give me a choice. Perhaps the yellow one would have worked?!
Stephan what don't you understant here? Waste $20, or waste $165?! It's not stupid to complain about a thumbrest that was $20. It's more than the cost: its all the hype I'd heard about it. Besides, $20 or $2000000, it shouldn't have broken under normal, non-strenuous conditions.
Anyway, thousands of clarinetists can't be wrong: standard thumbrests are IT!
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! Buffet
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-20 13:34
True is that it should not break.
But when you buy unadjustable thing it is simply YOUR risk if it will fit you. If it will not, that is not problem of that product.
It is also possible that the thumbrest broke because it was mishandled during instalation.
"all the hype I'd heard about it" Well, did not you hear about that proffesional one???
I find standard thumbrest very unphysiological. The last thumb joint is not desinged to be in such pressure from a side.
Post Edited (2004-11-20 13:50)
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Author: ariel3
Date: 2004-11-20 14:41
I decided to try the Kooiman, but chose the "deluxe" version because I knew I was dealing with a real health issue here. I had just begun to notice pain in the thumb region. In fact, I purchased not one, but two so that I had one for each horn. I knew that I could not possibly switch thumbrests as well as a mouthpiece in mid score. Having two also allows customizing the fit for each horn.
Now, I had the option of returning them within thirty days trial if I was not satisfied with the product. This, of course, was not necessary. I have found the product to be extremely rugged and well made. It provides infinite adjustment possibilities. And, in my case, the thumb pain is gone. I shall never gripe about spending a few bucks up front to save a lot of pain and suffering and whatever down the road.
I am left wondering if you have delayed too long before trying this option. I believe you should get a second medical opinion before aggravating the condition further.
Gene
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-11-20 15:16
I also used these thumbrests up until 3 years ago, as a help to fix some hand position issues.
I agree that even a $20 (more like £15 here) piece of equipment should not break under it's normal conditions...otherwise it shouldn't be on the market. The inventor aknowledged this also, and changed the design.
I bought a pair of them to avoid the changing instrument saga.
The main problem I had, was the screws. I used the original holes from my other thumbrests with the screws provided rather than getting a pro installation.
They WRECKED the back of my instruments, to the point where the holes had to filled and relocated.
If you do choose these...and they did fix my problem...then get them put on properly.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2004-11-20 15:52
I have both the pro and etude Kooiman thumbrest.
The first thing I would like to mention is that it takes some getting used to.
It took me a couple weeks to get accustomed to the etude. However, once I found my comfort zone I did have much less regular pain in right forearm and wrist. This is where I think LeWhite should give the Etude a better chance. Also having only one for 2 clarinets is not IMHO the smartest thing to do. Switching tumbrest is like switching ligatures to me. You can't just jump from one horn to the other.
Where I agree with LeWhite is in the quality of the materials. I find the Kooiman Etude to be poorly made. The threading in the screws is badly chosen, and the plastic used to make both the thumbrest and the plate is really fragile. I have not broken mine yet, but I definitely have to use much more caution than I would like.
My experience wih the pro model has been flawless so far, the price tag is high and no it does no resolve all your hand problems. The best solution out there might well be a neck strap, which is definitely cheaper than Kooiman's products. They are not used most probably because of clarinet playing tradition. If I was teacing kids now, I would require them to all have a neck strap.
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-20 16:08
Yes, neck strap!
I wonder why are they not used more widely. I drilled (I love drilling) a small hole into my thumbrest plate and made my own neck strap...
I have idea that the cheap model might be INTENTIONALLY made of bad materials, that it is meant as just a "prestep-model" to proffesional model, not as cheap "end-model". This would be pretty... (some appropriate negative adjective, please help)
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-20 16:34
Yes, this is a good one! Thanks.
Any other ideas?
Some really BAD adjective (even vulgar)?
Teach me BAD ENGLISH, please!
I want to be spoiled.
Mark C., please do not read this thread, this is NOTHING FOR YOUR GENTLE SOUL!!
Post Edited (2004-11-20 16:35)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-11-20 16:39
My stand partner had the Etude installed on his Bb recently due to thumb problems. I held the horn and examined the mechanism. I didn't find the "feel" of the positioning very good and felt that some rotational movement would have helped. I had a gut feeling that the screws were too close together and that the installation would at least loosen over a relatively short time. After 2 weeks my stand partner is still not happy with it.
Bob Draznik
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-20 17:29
I personally would only use the Etude for little kids who have clarinets with large right hand tone holes or have really small fingers.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-11-20 19:52
LeWhite:
I guess you didn't do a search for previous discussions of this thumbrest. I tried it a few years ago and did not like it. You can search the archives for the previous discussions to fill in your knowledge.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2004-11-20 20:11
I purchased the $20 model several years ago, not to ease hand / thumb pain but to try to correct the positioning of my RH fingers over the holes. With a conventional thumb rest my fingers didn't stay perpendicular to the long axis of the clarinet; the Kooiman largely cured that, partly because of its wide adjustment range (along the length of the clarinet) and partly because of its shape. (As a side benefit, it certainly made the clarinet (a Bb R13) easier on my thumb.)
Eventually I found that it gave me insufficient control over the rotation of the clarinet along its long axis. Using the pinky keys, (particularly the LH ones), or the upper joint trill keys would cause the clarinet to roll from side to side and thus I went back to a conventional thumb rest + neck strap. Somehow or other, during the ~2 years I used the Kooiman, I corrected my hand/finger mispositioning .
My original Kooiman broke after ~ a month; I wrote Kooiman and he immediately shipped a redesigned replacement which was better engineered and which gave me no reliability problems.
The mounting plate didn't exactly match the holes in my R13; instead of drilling the R13 I enlarged the holes in the mounting plate a bit; installation was then a snap.
For ~$20 I'd certainly recommend it to anyone with hand or thumb pain. If it doesn't work out, c'est la vie.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-11-21 00:03
Curious....when you get the device, do they supply a small jig to drill at the proper angle (curve radius) or a depth collar to limit the drill, or even the drill bit itself?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-11-21 02:46
The part that broke was the holes where you put the screws in - it simply snapped exactly across the screws, leaving half the bracket and the screws perfectly in place.
I'm lucky because I had my thumbrest moved up quite a bit, and had the Kooiman installed in the old ones - so now I can just have my old one put back and the Kooiman holes filled in.
This is exactly what I'm talking about: SO many people liked it, so why wouldn't I? Ah well. It's back to trusty old standard thumbrest now.
PS> For what it's worth, it IS adjustable, if only a little. You can move it up or down and and side-to-side a tiny bit. Sufficient to make it more comfortable for yourself.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! Buffet
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-21 03:34
Some techs use electrical tape on the drill bit to visually limit the depth of the drilling.
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2004-11-22 02:37
I have had the very expensive maestro model for about a month now and I am still not really happy. For that much money I truly expected to be be no less than ecstatic...
I find that the arm that extends out digs into my thumb and doesn't really transfer the weight off my thumb, but just distributes it throughout the thumb. My issue before was that the joint closest to my hand in my thumb was getting dore are swollen. That's still happening. I have found that because my hands are in a new position, I am missing keys all and holes all the time. (Yes, it seem adjusted properly...) and I tense up more now, causing huge issues with my wrist. After playing through Schumann's 3rd, my hand WENT NUMB because of this new position. I have never had that happen before.
I think it's better than my regular thumbrest- I prefer the kooiman on my Bb to the regular on my Eb and A. I am still feeling like I have get used to it or something- I still find myself moving my clarinet onto my knee to take the weight off my thumb. I am kind of having buyer's remorse... I hate to say that I hate it because then I am admitting to a huge waste of money.
When people ask if I like or would recommend it, I say that the jury is still out and that I am the only person I know of to dislike it. overall, I am disappointed.
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2004-11-22 07:00
I've got the Kooiman Maestro now for 1,5 weeks and am completely satisfied with it. All my wrist problems (before installing the Kooiman I didn’t play for about three weeks) are gone and my technique is becoming faster... I really got adjusted to it very fast.
VermontJM,
It sounds to me that your thumbrest isn't adjusted correctly. Go to a physiotherapist and let him/her help you to correct this.
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