 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-11-15 00:13
As many of you know, I've been looking for a first wood clarinet for 12 daughter.
She recently tried out a Selmer Paris 10 which is about 8 years old, according to our clarinet teacher and her husband. Both of these adults are professional clarinetists and agree that it is the best-sounding instrument we've looked at.
Daughter doesn't sound as good on the Buffets, although she did like the International, but not nearly as much as this Selmer and the Yamaha. The Buffets just sound stuffy and not clear, and are not as easy for her to play. She did play okay on a Yamaha, but this instrument is the easier and best for her sound and ease of playing by far.
Ws also tried a CL model Selmer, but it doesn't sound good. I think it as a Selmer USA model.
Problem? The used Selmer Paris 10 was marked at around $3,500 dollars. It was on sale for 2400. I think that it was overpriced at the music store. This was their biggest sale of the year, and we did get them to lower the price to $2,250. But that does not add up with the prices I find other instruments selling for. The couple helping us did their best, but the store owner is firm, and said that it had been overhauled in a fashion similar to the George Brannen style, with double synthetic pads in one place. I think someone named "Head" had done this, and apparently he has some good reputation.
Was I foolish to miss this buy? Is it a better buy than it appeared to me? Something just didn't seem right here. I see others selling normally spiffed up (pads new, etc.) 10s for 700-1000 dollars. Is the price of an overhaul really that high?
Please respond. I want to get the best instrument for my daughter that we can (a) afford and (b) will be resellable if she abandons the clarinet at some point. We intend to do our best to encourage her to keep it up, and she looooves playing. She's been taking private lessons from a great teacher since the beginning.
Am I correct in thinking that an instrument which is easiest for her to play and gives her her best sound is an encouragement? Her teacher and husband are in agreement with the results of our listening, and seem to think that the best Buffet in the world is not best for daughter if she doesn't play it as well. Of course, the two of them sounded great on every instrument, but hubby and I are convinced that we were not mistaken about the quality of the tone and sound from the Selmer being far superior to the others.
Sandy
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-11-15 00:18
My Selmer Paris 10G was bought new 10 years ago for $1200. I think the price is way out of line for used 10.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-11-15 00:26
Kathrynsmom...
Please write me off-line...GBK
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-11-15 12:41
I watch prices and buy on occasion, YES, anything beyond $1200 is too much IMHO. I recently bought a Selmer USA, OMEGA model [reputed as their best made nere {it looks like much "help" from France} ] and it is Very Good, costing me $350, not much bidding on EBAY, tho. BUT, bidding is hazardous, particularly if one doesn't have a Trial Period, and a "check-out" by a knowlegable cl'ist, Is this OK. GBK/MC ?? Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-11-15 13:36
This is not a good price...there are stores who sell these new on clearance sales at lower prices.
David Dow
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-15 14:06
I detest the local stores as their prices are almost never competitive. They are fine for reeds, music, but not high end instruments.
"here's your 1 model to try, maybe I can get another one, but it could take months" ............
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-15 17:41
Yes it stinks, Dave, but you have to keep in mind they don't have the room nor budget to order dozens of clarinets at once. Especially if they are catering to ALL instruments and not exclusively woodwinds (or even necessarily just "band" instruments. Some have to include an inventory for orchestra as well). Also, they can't move them as quickly, and also (although it's a shame), a good amount of potential buyers are parents who don't know that it's a good idea to test out as many instruments as possible. They hear "R13" and immediately whip out that credit card assuming that they are all created equal.
So yes it stinks, but they have to be able to survive and that means not paying TOO much attention to any one instrument and neglecting the rest. Especially when the market is as small as it is (which to 'local' shops, it pretty much is)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-11-15 18:06
Hi K's Mom - I had more to say than the above, didn't find an E M for you, if interested please E M me. You will find that "just looking" on EBAY, such as via Selmer Omega and Selmer-Paris Clarinet will be educational. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Doug
Date: 2004-11-15 18:08
Hi Sandy: Seeing your posting on the Clarinet Bulletin Board re your wanting a Selmer
Paris 10 clarinet. I agree with those postings that the local music store asking price
is far too high.
[ Part of post deleted. Please remember - no sales allowed on the BBoard as per the rules. Please use the Classifieds. Mark C. ]
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-15 18:26
Piano music and Guitars are what keep most of them surviving.
For that matter were there any 10 Series Clarinets made after the early 80's? (the 10G was but I don't think that the 10 was after about 1978 - I could be wrong)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-11-15 18:50
Good Points, D B [!!]. It might be hoped that Sel would do like Leblanc and keep making/selling [a few?] of the best older models. Some good cl f[r]iends have 10's /10G's ? and love them, my Sels are CTs, an Omega and an R I FB, different ! Is the !0/ 10S? a large , cyl. bore and the 10G[ligliotti ?] more like the R 13, maybe polycyl/conical bore, like my O ??. Believe I've heard that. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-15 18:53
Yes Dave. It's almost sad to see Sam Ash's catalogue which consists of 70 pages of guitars, drums, keyboars and amps, and dedicates two pages to orchestral instruments. Which, as was the Paris 10, either overpriced, or not great brands.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-15 19:12
Don,
I'm about 99% sure that the 10S/10G are both small bore. The 9 series is large bore.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-11-16 01:28
David, the salesman said this "10" was eight years old, by its appearance, then he said that this was only made for one year, because Selmer changed the model each year using the same model numbers. "Marketing," he said. He worked for them at the time and was not happy about that situation. This man is sixtyish and has worked for many of the companies throughout the years before he moved to our area. He said this instrument model number has not been made for many years.
I can't remember now if it had a "G", but I don't think so. I know it said "Selmer, Paris", and the man said it was a top-line instrument, and the best sounding one we looked at.
My husband is wondering if a 10 or 10G would all sound similar. It didn't have a big bore, but was similar to the Buffet and Yamaha bore, but maybe a teeny bit bigger.
Husband and I both looked on ebay, and saw 9s as well as 10s. Of course, not knowing the ins and outs of these instruments is a bit daunting.
The salesman said this Selmer 10 has not been made for many years, not under any model number, and that although an online source (I think it was wwbw.com) had one as "new", he said it couldn't be because it has not been made. That one was listed at around a thousand dollars, I think.
I just do not feel comfortable with the store owner where we were. I think the salesman was a bit surprised at the price, and he told us to wait and look around. He said he'd keep his eye open for what came in for trade in the next few months.
I'd really like to find a good instrument for here.
Sandy
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Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-11-16 01:48
You bought it NEW for $1200? Wow.
That's about the age this one is supposed to be. EXCEPT it is a 10, and how can it be eight years old if it hasn't been made in more than 20 years? I'm so confused. I remember what the man said, but I can't recall if he corrected himself, or if he was saying it just LOOKED eight, but hadn't been made since the seventies or eighties.
I looked on the Selmer timeline and couldn't find the distinctions between the 10s and 10Gs.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-16 01:53
The 10's was made before the 10G's were made.
I've played and owned both 10's and 10G's
Didn't particularly like either of them but was young at the time and studying w/ Gigliotti who designed the 10G
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Author: Dawne
Date: 2004-11-16 01:58
HI,
I played a selmer 10G when I was a music major. I really liked it. It was very sharp in the upper register though, as were other Selmers I tried, but it may have been just me. I have a Yamaha CSV now, which has great intonation, but I do think the Selmer was a little easier to play...for whatever reason. I had trouble with blending with Buffets though with the Selmer, and so many more people seem to play Buffet. I have no trouble blending with my Yamaha. For me, now, the Yamaha is the better choice. And as everyone else here states, that store was outrageous. I'm glad you came here to this site before buying it.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-16 01:58
In 1988 I bought a set (A AND Bb) of 10G's for only $1800
$1800 for the 2 total out the door. I ended up sending them back and spending over $1000 more for a set of Prestige that I still play now.
The 10G's were hand picked in Paris by Gigliotti.
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2004-11-16 22:00
There's a 10G on Ebay right now with a "Buy it Now" for $975. That's just about where I would expect a good one to trade. I have one of similar vintage and I love it, even when compared to my other horns, which iinclude Rossi, R13, Patricola, CT, BT and Brevet.
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Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-11-17 00:43
Thank you, yes I'm looking at that one one now. Glad to know it's a fair price. The trick is getting someone to let me buy it, and then return it if there is a major flaw. I would, of course, insure the package, so that shouldn't be an issue. It's just that I'd like daughter to be sure it's easy to play.
I'd guess that each instrument has its idiosyncrasies, since they can't be exact duplicates. Especially if they are a few years old. ; )
Sandy
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-17 01:02
It's a fine Clarinet. I play at a very, very high professional level and I didn't find that the sound was flexible enough for me. I use a lot of color shades when playing - the Cello teacher at the Manhattan School of Music Marion Feldman when she heard my Brahms Trio at a Festival said to me that she hadn't ever heard a Clarinetist with such a wide range of tone color before.
So I selected a set of the R-13 Prestige Clarinets. If I were in the market again for a set I would try what is currently out there from Buffet to Leblanc, Selmer etc.
Whatever you get for her won't be her last Clarinet if she ends up being a performance major so don't go to extremes to get the best as her taste will probably change as well as what her teacher in College requests.
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2004-11-18 02:26
You might also consider a Selmer CT, BT, RI, 9 or 9*. They are all pro horns and would be more than adequate "step up" instruments.
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Author: lyn
Date: 2004-11-19 22:50
The 10G on eBay is one of the X series of 10Gs, which is probably the best line of 10Gs made. It's probably an excellent horn. That's worth checking out. Email the seller and talk to them, see if they will allow you to try it out. Another good thing is that if you would buy a horn online and your daughter *doesn't like it, you can always resell it yourself.
I bought a great A (another Selmer 10G, but Z series) right here at Sneezy in the classifieds. I've had several offers for it (no dice!). A good horn is a good horn, doesn't matter what the brand name is.
Those who have been telling you that the Selmer 10 price is way out of line are all totally correct. Selmer 10s stopped being made in the early 1970s, I think around 1973. A 10 is not the same thing as a 10G, they are totally different horns. I had a set of Selmer 10s that I sold for less than $2000 TOTAL for TWO horns. I wouldn't pay more than $500-600 for a used Selmer 10. The music store guy thinks he has something more than what he actually has.
I personally love my 10G (it's the 333rd one ever made, handpicked by Gigliotti). Other people like their Buffets or their Leblancs. People all have different preferences. If your daughter played on Buffets that were "stuffy" then she hasn't played on any good ones yet.
I agree with those who say that the local music store is NOT the place to buy an instrument. Where are you located? Maybe someone here can give you some ideas of reputable people to go to?
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Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-11-26 20:09
Thanks, Lyn, and everyone else who chimed in with their great advice.
I'm still looking for a nice wood horn.
I've purchased a couple of VITO V40s plastic horns for her to take to school for practice and marching bands, because our rental is up on the Selmer 577 (she started with a Vito Reso, and somehow now has this one as a result of some problem at the store). I've received one, advertised as a wood-grain in EXCELLENT condition.
Now that I have it, it is not wood-grain, but glossy plastic, the holes are dirty, the pads are malformed and gouged, and the cork is gouged. I paid $154 including shipping. Should I return it? The seller has offered. He seems like a nice guy. I don't know how much it will cost to put the thing to rights.
The second one was purchased as comparison, and I bought it for $75 dollars plus shipping. Same description, from another vendor. We'll see about it when it arrives. I figured at this price, I could sell one to the other clarinetist in her middle-school band, who is also renting. Or sell one on ebay. Folks here are always looking for decent marching band instruments, or to play in festivals at the river in our humid, sweltering Savannah weather. The V40 has a good reputation on this board, so I went for it.
Too bad I can't get any information from these serial numbers for VITO. Leblanc doesn't seem to have good records. :( The second clarinet is supposed to be newer, with a single owner, so we will so how it is.
I don't think these folks who sold me the instruments knew what "excellent" condition is. I'd call one in this shape "poor".
Sandy
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-11-26 20:41
Kathrynsmom wrote:
> Should I return it?
Yes. the cost to repair would probably outweigh any savings.
> Too bad I can't get any information from these serial numbers
> for VITO.
For a plastic clarinet it probably doesn't matter ...
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-11-27 15:01
You should check out eBay and look up the seller cpaok. He has some great instruments. There are also a few others, but I've personally done business with him and he's a player with a great deal of knowledge. He has had a Selmer 10G in the past, and may have one on hand. He buys and restores good professional model clarinets and is nice to talk to via email as well. Give it a try.
I agree with Mark about the Vito plastic. It's probably ok for marching, but it's certainly not worth spending much money on.
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