 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mickey
Date: 2000-01-19 04:10
Is it the appeal of "safety in numbers" or just a general lack of musicianship that draws people to "Band" music. (Smiles... a little fuel for the fire...)
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-01-19 11:22
Mickey wrote:
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Is it the appeal of "safety in numbers" or just a general lack of musicianship that draws people to "Band" music. (Smiles... a little fuel for the fire...)
I can't speak for the other people in the band I just started playing with, but in my case it is probably a little of both. No offense taken; we can't all be professional musicians. Some of us just want to have fun.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-01-19 12:01
It might be interesting for Mickey to read up on who the players were in Sousa's band ... I seem to recognize quite a few names on that list of luminaries ...
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Author: steve
Date: 2000-01-19 14:32
mickey wrote:
Is it the appeal of "safety in numbers" or just a general lack of musicianship that draws people to "Band" music. (Smiles... a little fuel for the fire...)
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hmmm...depends on the band and it depends on the individual.
I wouldn't like to suggest to conductors Fennel, the late Paynter, Hunsberger, Corporon, etc etc that their ensembles are populated by folks who lack musicianship....I wouldn't like to suggest to Howard Klug, an alumnus of a service band, that he lacked clarinettistry....I wouldn't like to suggest to the late Hindemith that his symphony for band was a trivial piece of music....
I'm a chemist in real life. One of things we joke about is that there are no simple chemical reactions, but plenty of simple chemists.
More seriously Mickey, musicianship is a personal choice, as opposed to a situational or medium (orchestra, band, rock group) choice. I'd like to suggest that we all concentrate on that concept.
s.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-01-19 15:17
Interesting comments, I can relate to all. Re: chemistry, I'm a chomical engr., usually characterized as a plumber who has at least heard of chemistry!! Apprapro [sp?]. Actually I took up playing bass and alto so as to have my own music stand [and having a bit of vision problems], an occasional solo [including non-hidden mistakes!] and that the harmony cls are badly needed in bands and choirs, where everyone likes to play the malady. Old folk do talk a lot, dont they?? Don
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-01-19 17:03
Clarinet is the most popular instrument for beginners. First, of course, it's the best instrument. Second, unlike, say, the violin, after a few months a beginner can make a clarinet sound that is not physically painful to listen to. And unlike trumpet players or drummers, clarinetists make enough noise to seriously annoy their parents, but not enough to drive them insane.
Most clarinet players start in about the 7th grade. Since there are so many of them, the schools set up bands, which have lots of clarinet positions. Once the band is set up, beginners get steered toward clarinet because that's where the openings are. Also, of course, they take up clarinet because it's so much better than the other instruments.
Playing in a band is great. If you can't quite keep up, you can drop out and get together with your stand-mate. If you're really good, you get to play the solos.
There are other ways of playing that are also great, and you should do them all. In band, you play with a sound and style to blend in with the section. You need know how to do that, but you also need to develop an independent, soloistic tone and style. Also, while there's lots of very good music for band, that's only about 5% of the great music in the world, and you will want to know and play it all. It's only when you play alone, or with a piano or a small group, that you learn to sing your music - to play beautifully and with emotion.
It's not an either-or proposition. You need to learn both ways of playing - matching everyone else, and standing out from the crowd as a soloist.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: George
Date: 2000-01-19 17:17
I am not sure I understand Michael's comment. I love orchestras, wind ensembles, and concert bands. I would not venture to rate which is better. Some music sounds great for one, but maybe not for the other...
For amateurs, I tend to believe there are more opportunities and openings in community bands vs. orchestras (obiviously, there are more parts!)
George
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Author: Meri
Date: 2000-01-19 18:33
I tend to believe that bands that are part of schools, especially elementary schools, are most definitely "follow the leader". However, in small high school bands (like the one at my high school), it was often 1, or maybe 2, to a part--this was even the case with the clarinets. However, the all-city band I was in for a year (I then moved to the all-city orchestra) was a lot of follow-the-leader--and I was principal third! (but the music in the all-city bands is quite difficult, usually college-level)) My college band, with eight clarinets, is not a case of follow-the-leader, and most definitely not my community band.
The fact that this situation even exists so much reveals the lack of rhythmic awareness of many music students.
Meri
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-01-19 19:48
Ken Shaw wrote:
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Most clarinet players start in about the 7th grade. Since there are so many of them, the schools set up bands, which have lots of clarinet positions. Once the band is set up, beginners get steered toward clarinet because that's where the openings are.
Ken, I like your explanation. I started in 7th grade on clarinet. I signed up for drums, so now I know what happened!
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-01-19 19:54
George wrote:
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I am not sure I understand Michael's comment. I love orchestras, wind ensembles, and concert bands. I would not venture to rate which is better. Some music sounds great for one, but maybe not for the other...
For amateurs, I tend to believe there are more opportunities and openings in community bands vs. orchestras (obiviously, there are more parts!)
George, I think you cofused me with Mickey--he started this thread. I love the band I'm playing with.
Michael
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Author: steve
Date: 2000-01-19 20:05
another thing to consider....the "school band movement" could be seen as starting in the midwest in the early part of the century...around the 1920's, about the time the great midwestern college bands and college/university music education departments were getting started, and the 1st generation of 20th century bandmasters (Harding, Dvorak, Bainum, Maddy, a bit later Revelli, etc) were beginning to do things musically with bands that pushed the Sousa envelope...this led to establishment of programs of American wind instrument pedagogy from elementary to post graduate levels (primarily public school based...a real egalitarian concept...play in the Cass Tech band, summer at interlochen, go to U Mich school of music, play in the Detroit symphony or moonlight in the detroit concert band for Smith!!) that went beyond the European masters and produced what now is arguably the highest level of wind instrument performance in the world...bands a refuge??? not!!
s.
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Author: Meredith H.
Date: 2000-01-19 21:12
Not everyone that plays a musical instrument wants to be a soloist. I always suffered from severe nerves performing solos but as a band player I am confident and need no lead to follow. The clarinet is an instrument that should be played with other instruments, after all it isn't a piano, and I believe it sounds best in these circumstances. There many rewards from playing in band and it requires a lot of talent to do well.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-01-19 23:54
Meredith H. wrote:
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The clarinet is an instrument that should be played with other instruments, after all it isn't a piano, and I believe it sounds best in these circumstances.
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I'm not sure I agree 100% here - there are many fine unaccompanied solos. Meredith went on to write:
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There many rewards from playing in band and it requires a lot of talent to do well.
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which I fully agree with.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-01-20 00:25
Band or other ensemble music allows an entirely different range of musical expression than is possible on solos either accompanied or unaccompanied.
There is its own reward in creating part of this ensemble sound.
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Author: mike c
Date: 2000-01-20 01:32
I only wish in this country, New Zealand it was common for a school or in fact anyone to have a"BAND" of any type for me to play with.AS an older learner I can't wait to play with
another player Last year I was playin with the 3 only learners in my area the oldest of whom was 12 and I am 40 odd. It is good to be part of a group I feel.
As some may have read in past posts that in the part of the country I live in ,there is no bands as such`.Brass bands are
popular down here, with older folks making up the major part of the bands and reed players are not allowed unless it is xmas and then you may get a part.Some of the large city colleges have all types of bands but you have to be a student at that school.CLassical marching ,
I don't like this style of music but as some of you have advised me this is a good way to become a better player
so I pray for a band to play with.
And you were right those comments got us going. There is nothing like a bit fuel.
MIke
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-01-20 02:11
Jusr because there are no "strings" in a band doesn't mean your limited to "band" mucic. We play everything from an occasional military march to the classics. Most bands in the old days were noted for giving free concerts outdoors in the town square or park, allowing folks who normaly cannot go to the symphony to here good music. The reason you don't see any strings at these functions is that no fiddle player is going to subject his expencive chunk of wood to the riggers of the outdoor concert(rain, fog, dew etc). My uncle once owned an all steel string bass just to play evening parties in the Hollywood area, because his wooden bass literaly came unglued. This is the same bass later used in the Spike Jones band. The bassist would play it, slap it around, spin it, then a trap door would open up and a bunch of alley cats would come flying out. Anyway being in a band is not because its easier, because sometimes its just the opposite. Playing parts written for violin, but played on a clarinet can be real finger tanglers. The same for tubas and contra clarinets who cover the cello and string bass parts. Try playing Scheherazade on a contra.
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Author: Meredith H.
Date: 2000-01-20 02:31
My brass band recently did an accompaniment for Grieg's 1st Piano Concerto for a concert pianist we had touring in our area. I did most of the transpositions by hand, we tried doing by computer but it did some very weird things. I ended up playing the bassoon part on my tenor horn which I loved. The parts which were the most trouble to play were the violin parts, even though I simplified them considerably, they still sounded a bit whiney. Anyway, if a brass band can play orchestral music a standard wind ensemble should have no problems. Some our favourite piece are orchestral excepts includig New World Symphony by Dvorak which sounds awesome.
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Author: Meredith H.
Date: 2000-01-20 02:43
If the only bands in your area are brass bands why don't you learn a brass instrument. I suffered the same thing when I moved to rural Australia, the only band in town was a brass band composed of instruments I had never seen before. I had the choice of blowing my clarinet to myself at home or learning a brass instrument and joining in with the music community in the town. Our band is made up mostly of teenage girls, in a band of 40 we have 8 adults (and most of them are in the tuba section). I do miss playing my clarinet in a band but tooting my tenor horn is the next best thing. New Zealand have some really excellent brass bands, in fact the Australian and New Zealand Band Championships are to be held in Launceston at Easter. Is this anywhere near you? If it is it is a great opportunity to hear some good Brass and Concert Bands, so far there are 43 bands of varying grades attending.
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Author: Meredith H.
Date: 2000-01-20 02:43
If the only bands in your area are brass bands why don't you learn a brass instrument. I suffered the same thing when I moved to rural Australia, the only band in town was a brass band composed of instruments I had never seen before. I had the choice of blowing my clarinet to myself at home or learning a brass instrument and joining in with the music community in the town. Our band is made up mostly of teenage girls, in a band of 40 we have 8 adults (and most of them are in the tuba section). I do miss playing my clarinet in a band but tooting my tenor horn is the next best thing. New Zealand have some really excellent brass bands, in fact the Australian and New Zealand Band Championships are to be held in Launceston at Easter. Is this anywhere near you? If it is it is a great opportunity to hear some good Brass and Concert Bands, so far there are 43 bands of varying grades attending.
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Author: mike c
Date: 2000-01-20 03:57
At my age it is hard just trying to learn the clarinet.
Also I had a bad fall and can only sit at the moment.
So I can't march took up the horn to eliviate the boredom.
and found I love it
The only Launceston I have heard of is in Tasmania in Australia.
But there may be one in the south Island somewhere.
Thanks MIKE
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-01-20 12:43
Mickey wrote:
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Is it the appeal of "safety in numbers" or just a general lack of musicianship that draws people to "Band" music. (Smiles... a little fuel for the fire...)
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I can see that you're kidding, but it's nice to notice that people who replied don't accept the underlying premise that some types of music are inherently better than other types. I love chocolate ice cream, but I wouldn't want to eat nothing but chocolate ice cream every day, especially on days like today, when it's snowing!
Then, too, there's good chocolate ice cream and there's the kind a dear friend made the first time she tried out her new home churn. You could caulk a bathtub with that stuff. A good band is a fine sound indeed and a delight for both the participants and the listeners. A bad one sounds like an explosion at the county dump -- and the people in the band get the worst of the noise.
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Author: Mario
Date: 2000-01-20 16:18
I guess that the previous posts have well established that, by their nature, bands are not inferior to other types of muscial ensembles. That being said:
- Bands are frequently found in high-schools. By definition, that means junior musicians, especially clarinetists. While it is always possible to find early talent in high-school clarinetists, chances are most clarinetists in high-school are at the very beginning of their musical journey. The band musical level, naturally, will suffer. It is sad that most people (family and relative) only get to hear bands as a side effect of going to a school concert. Professional bands are incredible to listen to.
- In some schools, there is actually a real symphony. They have the same problem, but with strings. There is nothing as unpleasant as a high-school symphony with all these junior players trying to get something out, in tune, at about the same time. Does not sound much better or worse than the local band I might say. Funny enough, these high-school symphonies often have excellent wind and brass sections, since they pick up the bests of the local school bands.
- Same can be said of municipal bands or symphony. Marginally better than senior high-school school ensembles (I believe that mature players actually practice less, but I disgress), but I cannot image a city without one or the other, and there is no end to the joy experienced by their amateur members.
- In terms of musical development, I believe that playing in large groups at the early stage of one's journey into music is essential (as long as one gets a little bit of formal private tutoring in order to gete a few fundamentals right). There is always time to move on to smaller groups (chamber music, jazz combo, etc.) later as musicianship develops.
- Playing is groups develop team work, tolerance, commitments, discipline, etc. It create an excellent fundation for life, not just music. You meet great people, you grown a an individual.
- I have a secret to share only with this board (do not let my professional colleagues see this...). When I was a kid, I was shy, introvert and quite a solitary intolerant type. I wanted to learn the piano. I wanted not to be bothered by others weakenessed (I was also quite full of myself). My parents got me into the band. It is the best thing that ever happened to me. Instead of cultivating a neurotic individualist view of music (as many pianists still exhibit today - have you tried to get them to play with somebody else?), membership in the school band got me to create something of value with others. The life skills I got there are still with me 30 years later. I often think that I am what I am today because I learned the clarinet instead of the piano. It was not a neutral thing in my life.
- So, long life to the school band; long life to the school symphony! But what can we do about these 30 strings and these 25 clarinets? What can we do to get this Eb clarinet brash and cocky virtuosi (in his/her own mind at least) to play softer, and in tune?
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2000-01-20 19:27
This thread really is popular, at 24 posts and counting! I returned to playing clarinet after 25 year absence or so, and got involved with three sort of folk bands; we play approx once a month for tradtional American contradancing and English country dancing. Lots of tunes by Purcell and his contemporaries for the latter; jigs, reels, and hornpipes from North America and the British Isles for the former, plus a smattering of waltzes, hambos, schottisches and polkas.
Though these are "bands", not "orchestras", the main instrument is the fiddle. As a high school and jr high band school clarinettist, I was one of those who could hide; now as one of at most three, more often two, and quite often, only me, I cannot. My greatest challenge has been learning to play in tune. This past fall, one of our groups had a semi - pro player, and through six rehearsals, I absorbed a great deal of musicianship from him in that area. I find it remarkable how in a top level symphony, such as the Philadelphia Orchestra, each section sounds as one instrument when they are playing in unison.
A great deal is made on these pages about the importance of having professional tutoring. I had private lessons as a kid, as well as participating in band, and have not ruled out getting some kind of lessons again. But what I've learned playing with others in adult groups I don't think I'd learn from a tutor. It's not just about trying to acquire a great tone or finger difficult passages.
That's my two cents.
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Author: Meredith H.
Date: 2000-01-20 21:13
Sorry Mike your right Launceston is in Tasmania. I'll check the location again because I am sure there is a major competition in NZ this year.
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Author: Mickey
Date: 2000-01-21 04:17
Oh what fun….. and some wonderful comments. If only more of the world would be this enlightened!! <smiles>
Now… The Recorder (Block Flute) …. If it really is so bad, why did Bach use it in the Brandenburg’s??? Oh… wrong forum.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-01-21 04:45
Not really mickey, there's a few block flautist on this site too. My wife and I are playing around with them but I, for one can't get used to that crazy fingering.
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Author: Lindy
Date: 2000-01-21 10:06
Mickey, my guess is you have never heard let alone been involved in a half decent Symphonic Windband.
Try getting hold of some of Sparke or De Meij's music and have a listen to what you've been missing out on.
The symphonic band will be THE ensemble of the 21st century and school bands provide a vital method of learning musician ship.
I know you intended to spark a fire, just make sure you prejudging doesn't mean you're missing out on the opportunity to experience some of the finest music in existance.
Unless ofcause you're a string player..........;-)
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-01-21 10:50
I just wanted to add one more comment as someone returning to music after a long absence. I need the structure provided by the band I'm with. My skills are very rusty, and even counting rests and getting those tied-together sixteenth notes and eights notes in are a challenge. I'm very grateful that there are muscicians in the community willing to sacrifice an evening away from home to play show- tunes and marches.
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Author: Mario
Date: 2000-01-21 18:06
Question to Lindy: Why do you think symphonic bands will be THE ensemble of the 21th century? Not looking for a debate here (I have no opinion on this topic), but merely interested in hearing your rational.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2000-01-22 17:12
And don't forget . . . bands deserve the credit for the popularization of certain Friday night sporting events. The traffic jams around band stadiums used to be awful. Now we have pre-band warmup activities on the field allowing the fans more time to drift in without being late for the band performance. And after the band performance, one can either leave or amuse themselves with the post-band activities. And think of the educational opportunities these non-musical field activities have given to the musically disabled. Many actually go on to lead useful lives.
This is one of the overlooked, and I'm sure under-reported benefits of band membership.
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Author: Mickey
Date: 2000-01-23 05:50
The beauty about boards and the Net is it’s anonymity….Hey… I could be a non-musician for that matter.. like a drummer. (Just kidding my percussionist friends) .. I think you should take the time to reed some of the insightful and heartfelt postings that my “flip” coment has generated. Remember, there is no bad music…. Just bad musicians. (Maybe with the exception of RAP… <Smiles>)
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Author: Kim
Date: 2000-01-25 03:22
The clarinet is just as significant in a band as the violin is in an orchestra. The clarinet has three parts, with three rows. This just like the variety of violins. Whenever there are orchestral transcriptions for bands, the clarinets seem to always be the section that plays the violin parts.
Also, the clarinet is the one instrument(quoting from one of my music books) that has various instruments that cover all ranges of band instruments. A clarinet choir alone can play music for written for band because of the variety of instrumentation(contra, soprano, sopranino, etc.).
The clarinet is probably the most popular beginning instrument in the lower grades because of how you easily you can achieve a sound. Because of this, the clarinet section soon has many followers that stick with the instrument all through high school.
People are attracted to the drums just as easily because they are loud. But do young musicians know of the variety of percussion? No. All instruments are liked for their own reasons. Very intersting comment though!
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