 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-11-11 23:22
I have one of these and of course the linkage to low C on the bell will only work if the bell is off center by about 30 degrees. Does anyone have a good cheap quick fix for this problem?
Horn plays pretty good after I spent 3 hours adjusting and recorking the middle tenon linkages. Guess that's what I get for buying "C" stock and saving ~$600. Doesn't Music123 test drive their horns before shipping them across the country? Even as "C" stock it wasn't cheap.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-11-12 05:47
(WW&BW and Music123 stock is the same)
Buying an instrument without trying it first is 99% of the times a bad idea.
A few weeks ago I tried several Buffet low C bass clarinets at the WW&BW. You'd assume that at least these new Buffet clarinets were play tested (and the guy at the store even said they were). three of the seven I tried were unplayable at first. one of them was fixed so I ended up trying five instead of seven. If that is how it was with totally new Buffet horns I doubt you can expect much from a C stock clarinet.
I would tell them about the problems imediately and either return the clarinet or let thm fix it under the warenty.
Good luck.
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-11-12 08:03
I have one of these instruments and the bottom C plays fine with the bell at the usual angle. Don't be put off by the appearance of the mechanism suggesting otherwise. There is enough movement in the key easily to close the hole even with the bell out straight. If your one does not do this then the most likely explanation is that it has been damaged since leaving the factory.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-11-12 13:44
This instrument seems to suffer from the situation noticed by David Spiegelthal in his review of Dec. 2, 2003.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=131689&t=131689
As far as I can tell the clarinet has not been damaged in any way. The reason I posted this observation was to see if anyone knew whether Amaiti had made some kind of repair kit to correct the situation.
One could rectify the problem by bending the low C key's actuator arm to engage more of the lever on the clarinet body. The lever is currently straight and I assume it was made that way. However, since I have no use for low C at the moment guess I will just leave things as they are and email Amati and see what they say.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-11-12 13:59
Contact Graham Golden at Graham's Music (Albuquerque, New Mexico) and ask him if Amati has corrected this flaw.
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-11-12 15:37
I asked GG whether this was a flaw. He did not say it was. My instrument has come via him. There is no flaw. There is no sign of correction. I think this is a perceived flaw rather than a real one. Try putting the bell straight and playing the note. My guess is the note will come out.
GG looks on this board so he can settle it.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-11-12 16:22
I also "perceived" the alleged flaw, and I've been playing bass clarinet for 30 years and repairing/overhauling/modifying them for about 20 years, so I think I know a design flaw when I see one. I was unable to play the Amati bass in my usual orientation, with the bell angled straight forward, and still have the bell key lever make contact with its operating linkage. In my book, that's a REAL flaw.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-11-12 16:36
I can live with an off centered bell. It's the @#$^$%^%^^&^& leaking plateau keys that are driving me nuts. I don't see how repair technitions who work on these kinds of instruments manage to maintain their sanity.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-11-12 16:41
I play this instrument all the time. In my case there is no problem playing the bottom C with the bell in the usual direction. I can assure you. If it has been fixed before it got to me, so much the better, but I have not encountered this difficulty. I speak as a regular user who purchased the instrument.
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2004-11-16 05:02
Bill,
Please let us know what you figure out, even if it's a long time later. There's a lot of us out here interested in these instuments!
Wayne
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-11-21 17:01
An update to my Amati. First there is nothing wrong with the bell on this horn, I was having a preception problem when I first got it. The bell goes on just fine, maybe David Spiegelthal had an early model which did have a problem but this serial number 288X is just fine. I do find that the floor peg will not hold properly and made a spacer out of a piece of clear plastic tubing.
I played it for my teacher who thought it sounded pretty good given the price. The lowest side vent key(Eb/Bb) needed to be opened a bit and the Eb/G# key too. Both adjustments were done sanding cork. Speaking of cork, I've had a number of pieces fall off, Amati must use poor quality contact cement.
I then took the horn to a local pro bass player/teacher/repair technition. His comments were highly negative. I will summerize them as follows:
1) The wood is not of high quality and putting the camera down the bore reveals a number of potential crack areas. Further, the repaired crack has opened back up and a new one has appeared at the tenon (top of lower joint). The repaired crack is why I got $550 off.
2) Inspecting the bore side of the tone holes reveals many chips and manufacturing flaws.
3) The keys are soft and some of them (long rods in particular) are not well supported.
4) The design of the right hand thumb keys does not lend itself to easily playing a chromatic scale.
Because of the cracking at the middle tenon I will likely return the horn before the end of the month. I'm a bit afraid it will really have problems in the future. I still think that something is leaking as Clarion F# and Chalumeau B seem stuffy. However, they feel stuffy when played with the banana key too. I cannot find the problem with a light source (I tried cig paper too) and may try to pressure test the instrument next week. I am meeting with a local bass player/teacher in a couple of days and will discuss the problems with him.
The thing I like about this horn is that it works well under my short fat fingers (except for the left hand pinky Eb key which is unreachable). The throat notes sound pretty good and seem to be in tune, not the case with my old Conn.
One last thing the spring under the lower joint banana key (Bb/F#) is HUGE. It takes a lot of pressure to invoke it and makes it difficult to remove and reinstall the key.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-11-22 17:58)
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-11-24 11:34
Glad you found the bell was more a perception problem than a real one.
I agree the B/Fsharp other than the fork key can be weak and stuffy. I find the fork key note fine. I have found that this instrument prefers softer reeds than my previous one and this goes some way towards sorting out those two notes, but if you like a hard set up, beware.
Interesting point about the wood. I haven't looked down mine with any viewing tool but one of the things I like about it is the look of the wood. I shall say no more for fear of tempting providence.
The right hand banana key is very short, and took me a while to get used to, so I can understand that it may seem stiff.
LH A flat/E flat key: agreed. I try to avoid using that anyhow, but it is a big stretch.
The lower keys do feel mushy and do clank somewhat, but I have yet to find any situation where they did not deliver immediate and clear cut closure. It's a case of feeling soft and sloppy rahter than acting that way (in my case). But they would do well to work on this aspect of their manufacture. But I cannot say it feels that each key individually speaking is soft. I felt the same as DS when he said he thought they were OK.
To my mind this instrument has a distinctive personality producing a warm but closely focused sound which projects by reference to a pleasantly middle European reediness rather than because of power per se. It is a distinct sound which lacks the humming etheral presence of many bass clarinets, but gives a cleaner more specific tonal view than many. The more I work with it the more impressed I am with these features. It may help me emulate one of my more recent heros, the bass player of the St Petersburg (fantastic reedy tone!).
Overall I like it, but the above comments about the cracks certainly are not encouraging.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-11-24 15:06
Graham,
Very interesting and perceptive description of the sound of your Amati! I think you're right on the money. For you analytical types (I include myself in this group) the acoustical design aspects of the Amati which contribute to the smaller, compact, 'reedy' sound are, as with the Yamaha basses, a somewhat smallish bore and, more importantly, straight (non-undercut) toneholes --- this is my opinion based on having played and modified a number of these and similar instruments.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-11-25 14:58
Now that the Amati has gone back to Music123 and I am relegated to playing my old 1950s Conn again I have another comment about the instrument. I was never able to get a really good dynamic range out of the Amati, you could play soft and sort of loud. Now with the old Conn the dynamic range is so huge it even overdrives my hearing aid.
I always played the Amati with the provided mouthpiece as the other two bass mouthpieces that I own didn't work well on the instrument. Maybe it was a problem with the stock mouthpiece.
Anyway, baring some unforseen disaster I'll have used Buffet Prestige to toot after next Saturday.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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