 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Meri
Date: 2004-11-10 19:28
I have a highly talented, 15-year-old clarinet student. In 3 years, he has gone from being an absolute beginner to playing pieces of Grade 6 RCM level, and is preparing for his Grade 4 RCM exam in January, and is also in Toronto Concert Winds. *However* he recently told me that he may not be able to take lessons anymore, because, as he says, he does not have time for both homework and music. He also says that he wants to become a doctor, but his grades do not cut it for most pre-med programs; I have told him it is a good idea for him to keep his options open. I also know that he plays computer games quite a bit (as much as 2 hours a day, usually around 1- 1-1/2 hours), and that he needs to cut back drastically or even give them up entirely in order to have time for both schoolwork and music. There may also be the need to learn how to use “down time” when travelling for homework, like when Toronto Concert Winds rehearsals, or even consider using part of lunch hour to do practicing or homework. I have talked with his parents, at first, his dad did not agree of continuing lessons, but then when I mentioned the idea of keeping options open, how music majors are commonly accepted for medical school, and he might even consider studying music therapy, and talking what we need to do in the next 2 1/2 years to prepare for auditions (he got a taste of university auditions, helping as a page turner for mine), he saw my point of view. I’ve heard music majors who have a much lower calibre of playing than he does; I don’t want to see him waste his talent. He's also taking every music course he can in high school; he is taking the strings class this semester (he took one last year too), and is taking a piano keyboard class next semester. (I had no influence on either choice, especially not the strings one) Some of my friends and musical colleagues have heard him too, and they are amazed at his extremely high standard of performance. He has told me he finds school band boring, and I know he gets a lot more out of private lessons. It’s as if he’s denying his talent.
Any help would be appreciated.
Meri
"There is a difference between being flat and sounding in tune, and being in tune but sounding flat. The first I can live with; the second I cannot."
Post Edited (2004-11-10 22:51)
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Author: george
Date: 2004-11-10 19:38
Difficult as it may be for you, stay out of your students' personal lives. That's none of your business.
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-11-10 20:02
"I also know that he plays computer games quite a bit (as much as 2 hours a day, usually around 1- 1-1/2 hours), and that he needs to cut back drastically or even give them up entirely in order to have time for both schoolwork and music. "
That maybe be, but he IS 15. He's still a kid, and needs downtime. If he's feeling so much pressure to excel at his academics so he can get into pre-med as well as performing at a pretty high standard in music, he needs time to just be a teenager and do his thing.
I'm not saying he should give up his private lessons, but I don't think suggesting that getting rid of his downtime is the best idea either!
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-10 20:19
Your only option is to make the music more attractive than PC-games...
He must find it himself! There is no way of forcing him into music.
I sometimes think that music education is too much concentrated on technical skills and not to learn how to ENJOY music.
If he plays just classics on his clarinet I really understand him that he does not enjoy it at the moment...
And there is of course possible that he simply does not like music "from the bottom of his heart" and his good musical development is just pure coincidence of someone generally skillfull and inteligent being somehow met with a musical instrument...
He may be happier surgeon than musician...
You must let him decide himself...
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-11-10 20:28
School bands aren't about talent; they're about participation.
Try to take the long view of his education... skills learned (and earned) now will last his lifetime. I suppose you could ask him to listen to the loops played on his favorite Xbox/PS2/Nintendo game - he probably hasn't noticed them.
If he gives up, don't take it personally - there will be more coming along.
At 15, I wouldn't be surprised to find other distractions at play....
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Author: Bigno16
Date: 2004-11-10 20:30
As my band director says, kids these days really are kind of stupid sometimes. Why? Because they all try to be Jack of All Trades, and therefore , Master of none.
Everyone stresses themselves out way too much and that's because people are trying to 72 million things.
That's the reason the level of my band has declined in the last 3-4 years. Before then, the kids were motivated to play music and enjoy it. For some of them, it's all they did and that's why they were so good.
Not enough people put the time in, yet they all want the glory and fame and want to be good. They want to be superstars but don't want to do the work. Now, I know that doesn't seem to be the case here with your student, but you might want to ask him what he really wants to do with his life. If he seriously wants to be a doctor, then advise him that he should focus more on school and homework; if he wants to continue music, then vice versa.
And as for playing video games, you may want to remind him of what's more important: playing music or playing video games? I used to have the same problem and I'd spend hours playing an addicting computer game. All the time I've wasted, I kick myself for it today. Because without all that interference, I could have been that much better on clarinet. Playing video games should not be important to him very soon and in my opinion, he should definitely cut back, if not completely, and spend that time practicing his instrument. Playing music is an amazing thing and it's a shame that many don't realize it until after they give it up. He'll regret it later..
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-11-10 20:30
Cut out the exams, it'll take some of the pressure off.
Heck, at 15 I took up the clarinet because that's where all the fun people were, and had never heard of Carl Maria von Weber. I played (not that well, in retrospect) in marching band, and loved every moment of it. I also played video games at least as much as your student, and have just finished a 3-year programming internship at a video game company. You never know where things will take you.
I wanted to be a high school teacher at 15. Things change, too... professional musician or doctor might just be the career-option-du-jour.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-10 23:17
Get rid of the video games. Don't push him to major or minor in music either. Hopefully if he can get his act together he can do the medical route - at least he would be employed and not have to scrape for a living like most music majors have to these days.
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2004-11-11 01:54
I am not suggesting that he give up music but for a little perspective on video games....The following article Surgeons may err less by playing video games http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4685909/
If this kid wants to be a surgeon he may be doing himself a favor by playing video games. That's where the technology is and is going.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-11 02:11
1 to 1 1/2 hrs a day of video games is unbelievable for a student who needs to get good grades.
Maybe on the weekend that's ok, but not during the week. Also a student can get overuse syndrome playing over time the games.
Then there's the fantasy online games which have a whole subset of "star trek conventioneers" playing those!
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-11-11 04:40
I'm surprised he's not playing more - the high school students who play video games usually have 1 1/2 - 2 hours as a minimum. In any case, let him make his choice, I think. Video games can even lead to career interests/opportunities, as well, and if this guy is one of those "superkids" who get straight As, can do extremely well in music, and just about anything else, his only limit will be his choices. Sure, he might squander a potential music career, but at the same time, he could go into the computer world and be just as successful. But you can't make him stay with music, only encourage him. Forcing him to drop video games and keep with music will cause him to lose interest, and no one will be happy.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-11-11 06:28
I've seen similar results in students who made rapid progress at young ages. That learning curve has to eventually flatten out, or the pressure is going to get pretty high. If this kid sounds better than some college music majors, a little time off from private instruction isn't going to hurt him that much, and I'm not sure how critical his needs are to be ready for college auditions.
As far as alternative career paths, his video habit, etc. I think that George has given good advice in telling you to distance yourself from the student's personal life. At that age and performance level, most of that should be between you and the student. If he really wanted the lessons, but parents were putting on the brakes, that would be one thing. If he wants to slow down for his own reasons, I don't think that you help either him or yourself by intercession with his parents.
While I do believe that majoring in music is not a waste for those who don't work in the field, I would like to know just how commonly medical schools admit music majors. I would think that it would be difficult to compete with the folks who major in biology or chemistry. I've seen a couple of music majors go to law school, but they did a lot of extra non-music coursework prior to applying. This would seem even more critical to me when looking at med school.
As for taking talent here or there, the desire to make music a profession is unlikely to come from anywhere but within. If your student is feeling the need to slow it down, this could be a strong indicator that his love for music might founder under the kind of pressure that a music career track demands.
Allen Cole
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-11-11 07:50
<Excuse the disjunct rants>
Speaking of video games, things tend to come around in the strangest ways. My clarinet choir piece, which I expect to finish writing in the next few weeks, is based heavily on various aspects of video game music (especially the old 8-bit Nintendo). Few things can possibly be geekier than listening to (or rather remembering) a dozen or so video game themes and noting their form in terms of A, A', B, etc.
I hesitate to encourage people to play video games with the "It's good for you!" logic, but as with all things, balance is good. I personally quit cold turkey (and suffered withdrawal) this August, as I knew games would significantly impact my classwork this semester.
I think it's also important to keep in mind that a career as a top-tier professional orchestral musician is not necessarily the desired goal of a budding teenage musician. I personally hope to make great music... whether this is done in an orchestra, at coffee houses, in subway stations, or in a studio, I don't know. And, frankly, I don't care so much. I will pursue the clarinet for as long as it continues to allow me to make great music, and will pursue making great music for as long as making great music is important to me. This "artsy-orchestral-music as a university-trained career" phenomenon is a somewhat recent development in history, one I have a shaky relationship with.
A friend of mine (very good horn player) is majoring in pre-med bio, and has recently added a second major in music. It's the situation where if you don't do it now, you probably never will... but if you put some time into it now, it will be part of you forever.
Regarding the original post, though, keep in mind that life decisions don't need to be made at 15 (there's enough unnecessary pressure on trivial matters in high school already). There's still plenty of time to explore.
This, of course, all assumes that you are satisfied with the "go-to-school, get-a-job, work-for-lots-of-money, get-married, buy-expensive-things, drink-gourmet-coffee, retire-with-lots-of-stuff, then-perhaps-die" ideal-life metanarrative.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-11-11 12:22
Kids can get overuse syndrome from playing clarinet, too.
The world is already filled with highly talented and unemployed musicians. Frankly, we need more doctors. If this kid felt the burn that makes being a musician his one true love, he would balance his life accordingly. He doesn't, so leave it alone. If there is one true thing about teaching and parenting children, it is that the harder you push in one direction, the faster they'll go running in the opposite direction. He'll find his path on his own, and it may or may not include clarinet.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-11 13:53
Perhaps you can suggest a "lessoning" of music. Lessons every other week, with a little less pressure to get so much done musically.
Just a thought. This way hopefully he won't feel AS pressured musically, will be able to relax a bit in it, hopefully (given he uses the time wisely and doesn't take the extra time to INCREASE his video game playing) he can apply it to homework and knock that out.
Also, it'll keep him taking lessons every now and then, so that if in the future he decides he does want to come back strongly into music, he'll be better off having had SOME lessons rather than none.
Also, at 15 years old, if you haven't already, make sure to include him in on the discussions. He's almost considered a "legal adult" and don't use the parent as a 'negotiator' or 'middle-man'. Give him a chance to begin making his own decisions and present his argument face to face.
And lastly, as George pointed out, don't become a 'counselor' to this kid unless you WANT to be that involved in your students' lives. It's up to you, however it does look like your stepping over the "business" line into the "personal" area.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2004-11-11 14:56
Because we're music lovers we tend to think that Music is imbued with spiritual, etherial, and celestial qualities. Yet as a music teacher, you are really providing a service. The client wants your expertise, and you provide the knowledge. If the client doesn't want to continue receiving your services then you really can't force them.
Ron Jr.
Post Edited (2006-03-06 17:50)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-11-11 15:38
I disagree with the notion of ocassional or less regular lessons for kids. It generally provides little or no benefit, while maintaining an illusion of study in the kid's mind.
In my mind, if they need a break they need a BREAK--and if they need to study they need to STUDY. If we blur the distinction, they won't be able to tell the difference between the two.
When I have a kid who wants to slow down, I generally tell them to just take a semester off, but that they can give me a call if they run into something important like a big audition.
I also set up my yearly system so that there is an option to take the summer off without a change of status. Some students are year-round, some are fall-spring, and some are summer only. To me, the key is that they are fully engaged while the lessons go on. Of course, I hate to see some take the summer or the school year off, but that can be an important safety valve for good players who have other primary interests.
Allen Cole
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-11 16:31
I have many every other week students and they still dominate the 1st sections. I only will schedule weekly lessons for the serious students and it works out just fine.
But never go down to once a month and if the student isn't practicing then they won't be studying in the first place.
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-11-11 23:15
Whilst I might have been slightly more tactful than George (first response to your posting). I'm afraid I have to agree with him ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: chlpuduk
Date: 2004-11-12 02:02
All of the above guys look a lot older and experienced than I. I can't say anything about serious debates on clarinet, but I believe i can tell you something on this topic:
I am 17 highschool student, who once planned to be a doctor but decided to be something else because of clarinet. I have been playing clarinet for roughly 6 years. Before being a new Canadian, i used to have private lessons for 4 years back in Korea, and i really hated everything about music and clarinet. But i couldn't avoid lessons anyway, because my parents forced me.
Anyhow, something happened last winter. In a school concert, a guy played Chopin Op.66 elegantly, and I was determined to do something with my clarinet. I started practising seriously and taking private lesson again. And with in a half an year, I played Mozart Concerto 2nd movement and J. Stamitz Concerto 1st movement for Mississauga Youth Orchestra audition, and now i am playing for MYO. What could i have done within 6 months? I admit that i was greatly improved during that time, but does 6 months enable any beginner to play Mozart? I could play it because of the 4 years of pain rather than 6 months of cramming. Whether I liked it or not, it was working! Now, I really appreciate my parents and my former clarinet teacher's patience for not practicing.
Here's my conclusion. Let your student take lesson. According to what you've written, he doesn't seem to be a real clarinet lover like people I see around here. But, he is still very young and there'll be a chance he can be inspired like i was. If you continute lesson with him, he will be able to do something when he really wants to do it. And he will appreciate for your help.
By the way, if you are doing clarinet performance major or a clarinet teacher at U of T-guessing from music.utoronto.ca-, you should know my private teacher, Mr. Thomson
Post Edited (2004-11-12 02:09)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-12 02:32
A really good teacher can inspire students to work hard and progress years in only months compared to non-inspiring teaching.
But the original posting sounds like the student wants more to become a doctor and play video games more than to study the clarinet.
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