 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-09 11:35
This is the question for professional players in orchestras:
When you play the same piece for the 127th time, do you still know, what do you play? I would expect that you know it so well that you simply play automatically and think God knows about what.
Write us, what complicated and intellectual problems can be solved, or the opposite, tell us the most stupid thing you made up during such boring concerts. I know it is a bit sensitive thing to admit, that you are not fully immersed in music and each nerve of your body does not play with the music, but overcome it and BE SINCERE!
Post Edited (2004-11-09 11:36)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-11-09 11:44
Playing any orchestral piece for the 7th, 27th or 127th time still requires intense concentration and acute listening.
Obviously each and every performance is different - whether it is a new conductor, a different soloist, unfamiliar acoustics or the unique challenges of blending and intonation.
Any musician who goes on automatic pilot after repeated performances of the same work, probably should not be holding a chair. There is no such thing as set it and forget it.
Remember - Clarinets don't play in tune, great musicians who play the clarinet play in tune.
No one 'plays in tune' just like that. Anyone who is in tune all the time is working hard at it every second he or she is playing.
If you aren't concentrating on intonation DURING EVERY NOTE YOU PLAY, I'll bet big money you play out of tune a lot of the time. Probably way way out of tune
Sometimes, due to being so wrapped up in our own part, we even forget to listen to all the other beautiful playing that is going on around us. Don't lose sight of the entire forest just because you are one of the (grenadilla) trees.
If the joy is out of your playing and you are getting bored of the music, it's time to find another line of work ...GBK
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-09 11:59
GBK: frankly, I am surprised... Surprised in a positive way... At least one good clarinetist!
What about your relation to those works? Do you still have a taste to listen to the same concert in your free time?
Unfortunatelly, your answer is so serious that we will read nothing funny here anymore... Or will we?
Post Edited (2004-11-09 12:02)
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-09 12:09
You said clarinets do not play in tune. Why?
That is easy, make the holes in proper places and there should be no problem?
Post Edited (2004-11-09 12:09)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-11-09 12:23
Stepan wrote:
> You said clarinets do not play in tune. Why?
> That is easy, make the holes in proper places and there should
> be no problem?
If it were easy it would have been done long ago ...
Every hole on a clarinet is a compromise since it is used for more than one note (the clarinet is not alone in this respect) and the perfect acoustical length of the tube is pretty much unobtainable except for one note per hole. Since the clarinet overblows at the twelth instead of an octave even the octaves are out of tune since it is sounded on a different hole.
Lots of things are done to try and make the clarinet sound as close to "in tune" as possible (the bore is changed slightly over its length, holes are chamfered (fraised, undercut), new mechanisms installed, etc.).
But, on a much more complicated issue, and one that is being discussed currently in the Klarinet mailing list, is "what does 'in tune' mean?" "In tune" does not necessarily mean that you hit the center on your tuner; it means that the ensemble is 'in tune' or the solo is 'in tune', and that's MUCH more complicated than just centering the needle (or lighting the LED).
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-09 12:33
Mark, that is easy.
Make a special hole for each note.
Sligtly more keys... Bore looking like emental. OK!
Do you think having so many holes would make sound worse?
OR: make two clarinets, one for "normal" tones and one for overblown.
Train in quick moves needed for switching clarinets.
We may simply WANT TOO MUCH FROM ONE INSTRUMENT!!!
This is very important remark.
Problems are SOLVED.
I am a clarinet HERO!!!
Hooray.
Post Edited (2004-11-09 12:37)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-09 13:13
No, there will always be factors such as temperature and humidity which will affect the end result.
The ears always have to be used. Also, listening is still critical for the balance too. Even for stupid goofy gigs you still have to listen - I played at Busch Gardens German Festhause in Williamsburg as a College Freshman and even though you played the same show 6-7 times a day for 3 months there was still the issue of balance and intonation.
Once after a Philadelphia Orchestra Concert of a really long Shost. Symphony (I forget which one, but it wasn't one of the more popular ex: 4,5,6,10,11) the summer concertmaster came up to me and said "were you as bored as I was?"
It happens. Chances are that if you are bored you will play like you are bored and that's just not acceptable.
The other issue is that lets say that you just invented the perfect Clarinet and every note is "in tune". You make the Mouthpiece as well and it is custom fit so until somebody else invents a connector so that they can put their version of it on your clarinet, you have a lock and control of the mouthpiece and clarinet. Now the reed will become a factor in the pitch so you would need to have control of that too as well as the physiology of the player.
As you see - it just isn't possible.
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-09 13:14
Mark, I am convinced that there would be still some place for wood!!!
I do not know for how much.
Well, I personally do not find that extremely high notes very attractive so two clarinets would be enough for me, but some batman-clarinetists would need four clarinets, but that would be THEIR problem...
Batman-clarinetist, doesn´t it sound strange? I ment clarinetist with ears as bats have...
Post Edited (2004-11-09 13:25)
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Author: William
Date: 2004-11-09 14:24
One of my ways of overcoming boredom is to think about how happy I am to receive my paycheck in the mail--$$$$$ :>)
Post Edited (2004-11-09 15:26)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-11-09 14:25
On the late, lamented WNCN in NYC, the introductory music for the midnight show was the Romance from Eine Kleine Nachtmusik. This is such great music that it never got boring.
On WNYC, the morning show was introduced by Grainger's Handel in the Strand. This is very ordinary music, and any pleasure got worn off after about a week. It got to be like Chinese water torture, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip.
Remember, though, that even the most tired warhorses get played only once in an orchestra season. There are very few pieces I couldn't stand to play once a year.
Also, playing (as opposed to listening to) even the most familiar music creates a dynamic interaction -- you, the music, the instrument, other players, the conductor and the audience. You don't get bored with that, any more than you get bored with walking. It's a coordinated process that you just do.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-11-09 15:48
No one's mentioned Ravel's Bolero - a repetition many times over within the same performance. It's a credit to the musicians' professionalism that they don't walk off the stage half way through.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-09 17:52
Quote:
GBK wrote . . .
Sometimes, due to being so wrapped up in our own part, we even forget to listen to all the other beautiful playing that is going on around us. Don't lose sight of the entire forest just because you are one of the (grenadilla) trees. And try not to do what has happened to ME on occassion and be so immersed in the forest that you forget to play YOUR part. Liken my missed entrances or skipped stanzas it to the tree falling in that forest. But EVERYONE hears....Thank goodness it's only happened in rehearsals.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2004-11-09 17:53)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-11-09 21:45
It's wonderful to hear that there are musicians like GBK who still have such pure and idealistic attitudes. Personally I don't find it that easy to have "joy in my playing" all the time, but maybe that's because I play a lot of opera...
I've just got home from what must about my 100th performance of 'Lucia di Lamermoor'. There are some beautiful arias in this piece, and even some wonderful clarinet parts. But there is also about a quarter of the piece that if you actually didn't play, nobody would probably even notice (except perhaps the guy sitting next to you!) It's really hard to stay joyful in these tuttis.
Regarding playing in tune- after playing a piece like this so many times with the same colleagues, I know in advance which way I have to bend which notes to match the flute player, etc. Not much of a challenge there either...
Fortunately my colleague draws some great caricatures during performances, so at least that keeps me entertained!
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-11-09 23:20
One exception to GBK's rules: Pomp and Circumstance. In that case, you can be thinking about 10 different things at once and still be playing just fine for the situation. I know I certainly don't get wrapped up in my part when I'm playing it, nor do I find myself immersed in the "beauty" of the song around me. The melody people complain about the repetitiveness of Pomp - try playing the Bass Clarinet part! Repetitive quarter notes, usually on the same note throughout.
Of course, Pomp doesn't quite count as professional/orchestral, does it?
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Author: Stepan
Date: 2004-11-10 15:22
Liquorice, that is a very interresting thing you said:
"if you actually didn't play, nobody would probably even notice"
I have got one idea. TRY IT! But you must do it carefully. Just hold the clarinet and move your fingers, but do not actually breath in it and wait if conductor will miss something. If he will not, another clarinetist does the same thing. This way you can determine the really needed number of clarinets.
Then you can have breaks and enjoy concerts better.
What caricatures does your colleague draw?
Post Edited (2004-11-10 18:34)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-10 18:28
Why not just knock out the conductor and see if everyone keeps playing 
Orpheus doesn't use one, so they must not be needed.
Sure could save a lot of $$$ to spend on amps or something........
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-11-10 18:56
There's a difference between actively noticing an obvious missing part and more subtly noticing the slight change in color due to a missing part that you think is "lost" in the ensemble.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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