 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-10-28 19:41
Not sure what you're questioning, David, but saliva is the first stage of the food digestion process, so it seems reasonable that saliva would be acidic, n'est-ce pas?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-28 19:55
High acidity vs low acidity - affect on the reed
Does rinsing off the reed with water prolong the life as the saliva doesn't stay on the reed?
Of course water cleans the saliva and also the dead lip skin which is on the reed, but if somebody has a high acid level - can they expect their reeds to not last long at all?
And I remember somebody on Klarinet list saying that saliva has no effect on the reed.
I think it was Dianne K who is a physiologist. I'll have to look it up.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-10-28 20:05
Fernando Silveira did his DMA on effects of saliva on the reed. The conclusion was that the digestive properties of saliva, known not to affect cellulose to any great degree, was not any problem. The deposition of minerals in the tubules was.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-10-28 21:16
I don't remember (if it is, it's in Spanish). I believe if you search for Fernando in the Klarinet archives you'll find the references.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-10-28 21:36
I believe that I've heard , yaars ago, that the mouth was very slightly basic [alkaline; above 7.0 ph] and the stomach digestive juices were quite acidic, which may account for "heartburn", and the associated discomfort [just listen to those d--- commercials]. Who has a phisiology [sp?] book to settle this momentus queation? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-10-28 21:55
What I remember from eight grade science and Biology I was that saliva had the slightest hint of acidity. Like 6.8 or so on the pH scale. Although, the school doesn't really seem consistent with what they teach us from year to years, but it's what I remember.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-10-28 22:07
Of course, some of the predigestion that takes place is due to the presence of enzymes rather than acids. Amylase is the classic example.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2004-10-29 00:10
Salivary pH is HIGHLY variable. Tends more to the basic side.
Yes there are enzymes...but more importantly there is crystalization that occurs as well as cross-linkages effected by the action
Ref: Donald Jay Casoadonte
OSU 1995 The Clarinet Reed: an intro. to its biology, chem. and physics
Doctoral Thesis
UMI # 9612138
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2004-10-29 00:11)
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-10-29 00:12
Healthy people are a bit alkaline ~7.4, neutral is 7.0 and if you acidic, less than 7.0, you may have health issues.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-10-29 00:13)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-10-29 01:03
One of the most common mechanical problems with reeds is the build up of skin detritis from the lips as well as minute organic material from the mouth. These are also great breeding grounds for mold. There is some evidence that enzymes in the saliva break down some of the carbohydrate - sugars - that form the matrix holding the bundles of cellulose together. This latter process is not all bad because it allows the reed to vibrate at a greater frequency but may also predispose it to mechanical damage during vibration. These sugars also are key to the rehydration properties of the reed and it is my feeling that many "bad" reeds are partially due to poor rehydration properties. It is the presence of water that makes the reed more flexible and increases its vibration efficiency.
The Doctor
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-10-29 03:35
Don,
I had a pH test a few years ago, which required wearing a recording device overnight connected to a sensor which stayed at the bottom of my aesophagus, just above the stomach. The stomach acid that reached it through my hiatus hernia (since repaired in a 20 minute endoscopic plication) had a pH of about 2.
Since you're an engineer, I'm sure you know that every pH number change represents a factor of ten; i.e., stomach acid is very strong, which accounts for the heartburn (and damage to the aesophagus).
David Blumberg,
In case you haven't seen this.... I recall seeing something on Naylor's web site about saliva damaging a clarinet bore, but I believe it was an unusual or rare case. If it's that corrosive it would seem reasonable to expect it to damage cane as well, but most of us probably don't need to worry about it.
Hans
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-10-29 14:38
There's been an intense discussion on the IDRS oboe list about whether to wet reeds in saliva or water. The consensus is that saliva is best, with many people saying water is terrible.
I often put several clarinet reeds in a saucer of water to soak them up for playing, and I've never found any difference between water and saliva.
In an IDRS Journal article, an oboist said she had been able to revive reeds by putting them in an ultrasonic cleaner. Given the very small dimensions of the oboe staple, this might work in getting buildup out of the metal tube. I'm not sure it would help clarinet reeds, but small cleaners go for around $35, so it would be worth a try.
By the way, the Vandoren site http://www.vandoren.com/ has four issues of their magazine, plus a jazz issue, all of which are interesting, and the background music is an amazing performance of the Rossini Theme and Variations by Alessandro Carbonare.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-29 16:12
For an oboe reed since they are sealed basically it would do much more good than a Clarinet reed would. Just rinsing a clarinet reed with water or even going as far as to use soap and a toothbrush gets almost 100% of any debris, etc from the reed.
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