 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BlockEyeDan
Date: 2004-10-27 19:59
Hello all,
I've just had the distinct pleasure of dropping my M13 and having a decent-sized chunk (half a pinky fingernail) of the tip break off. Will a two-part epoxy be able to fix this boo-boo? Should I use the 5-minute or regular epoxy? I'm assuming that if there is no residue along the seam on the inside of the mouthpiece, it *should* sound like it did pre-drop, though this is certainly open to debate. The piece that broke off is intact, and it did not affect the rails or table at all....
Thanks,
Dan
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-10-27 20:34
Dan,
Epoxy could work, but you might get better results with cyanoacrylate glue (a.k.a. "superglue"), especially if you find the specialized 'for plastics' version that includes an accelerator (surface prep fluid). If you can't get the accelerator, thoroughly clean the mating surfaces with alcohol and let dry just prior to applying the glue. Make sure the two pieces are lined up ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY and apply just the tiniest amount of adhesive, or else some will squeeze out and mar the surrounding area. If you're lucky, the mouthpiece will play as before the accident; otherwise it will have to be refaced.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2004-10-27 20:37
I would recommend trying to send it to one of the people who do mouthpiece refacing and repairs. Why risk making a mess of it yourself?
Ed
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-10-27 20:56
Decades ago a pupil did the same, and lost the chip. I made a crude mold with adhesive tape, built up the entire area with epoxy, and then shaped it to match the other side. To my surprise, it lasted at least 10 years with regular playing.
According to my local epoxy manufacturer, the regular epoxy sticks better than the 5-minute, because the slower setting time allows it to better permeate the structure of the surface being glued. The epoxy material itself, once set, has the same strength WITHIN itself for both versions.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-10-27 21:51
Two years ago I repaired (with regular epoxy, as suggested by Gordon above) a chipped RIA crystal clarinet mouthpiece, and I've been playing on it regularly since then.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-10-27 22:51
I have no positive info re just exactly what plastic the M13 is made from. With plastics in general sometimes cyanoxxx works and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't ...sometimes the epoxy works. If the cyano doesn't work you'll know almost instantly.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-10-28 00:21
If you experiment and fail with one adhesive, then ALL traces, even those invisible to the naked eye, must be removed to give another adhesive a fair chance.
Using cyanoacrylates on plastic.... From my experience with them:
1. Most, if not all, set exceedingly brittle, and this seems to make them inappropriate if any 'filling' is needed in conjunction with adhesion.
2. I find them successful on plastics only when the associated solvent in the glue softens the plastic, i.e. it is a solvent for the plastic being glued. IN other words, the plastic is more or less being 'welded' by the glue, and in which case, I'm not sure exactly what the relevance of the other components in the glue would be.
Put a speck of glue on your finger and apply it to a part of the mouthpiece that doesn't matter, say the end of the tenon. If the finger sticks well and quickly, or leaves finger print marks on the plastic where it has softened it, then the cyano is probably suitable. A suitable solvent would also leave the finger print marks, and also probably be suitable for welding.
Of course, after this test you would have to accept the glue on your finger, or nibble it off, or file it off, or dissolve it with acetone, and also have thick enough skin that the skin did not peel off your finger if the glue was too successful. :-)
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-10-28 00:46
Just wondering.... does anyone know if either of these glues is toxic/mutagenic/whatever if they are in the mouth of a player frequently or for an extended period?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-10-28 04:59
The result of my enquiries (which may not have revealed all) on the topic were that neither were a problem once fully set.
Superglue fumes are an irritant but otherwise non-toxic. Who'd want it near their eyes or mouth though!!! However, it is now used in surgery. (I sometimes use it to hold finger cuts together so I can continue working in comfort without a plaster.
It's best to avoid epoxy vapours and skin contact.
A friend, in ignorance, once tried to use it to repair a broken tooth in her mouth, and a bit got on the roof of her mouth, resulting in an ulcer that took many months to heal.
Post Edited (2004-10-28 05:01)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-10-28 13:49
I'd contact VanDoren and ask them what adhesive to use....they might even offer to repair it for you or exchange it
Bob Draznik
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Author: Katfish
Date: 2004-10-28 14:02
Dan; Send your mouthpiece to David. ( if he has time ) Four years ago I got a small chip in my M13. It wasn't my favorite mouthpiece but I thought I might as well try to get it fixed. I sent it to David. He fixed it , refaced it, did it for very little money, and improved it greatly. Now it is my favorite mouthpiece. Thanks David.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-10-28 14:43
Katfish, thanks for the nice words and I'm glad your mouthpiece is still producing musical tones! All: some of the above posts seem to refer to the M13 as a "plastic" mouthpiece --- really it's hard rubber, is it not? Cyanoacrylate ("superglue") does bond pretty well to hard rubber (with appropriate surface prepping), possibly even better than does epoxy. Certainly it's true that "superglue" isn't good on many plastics --- although the accelerator prep I described makes a world of difference when attempting to bond plastics that don't otherwise work.
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