 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: frank
Date: 2004-10-23 22:17
I am trying to do an informal survey of American professional players who currently or have used Vandoren mouthpieces and which models were used. It seems the majority of pro level players in the USA use custom hand made/faced mouthpieces from various makers such as Pyne, Hawkins, Smith, etc. It will be interesting to know of some greats who use "cheap" machine made mouthpieces as opposed to the more expensive high end models. In the end, it ultimately comes down to the player to make a gorgeous sound, not the mouthpiece. I feel there is quite a bit of sobbery in the mouthpiece world especially when machine made products are concerned. Thanks everyone!
Post Edited (2004-10-23 22:19)
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Author: Kevin
Date: 2004-10-23 22:27
If you go to the official Vandoren website, you'll find a whole list of performers who are official performing artists, of which include many of today's most prominent musicians.
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-10-24 05:24
I, myself, would be curious to find out who is actually using their equipment. I've often wondered who actually uses what they endorse on a regular basis. Just because someone is endorsing a product(s) doesn't mean that is actually what they use when they perform. I'm sure some people will endorse anything depending on how much money a company is offering.
-pat
All I can think of right now are the new Budweiser commercials with Leon:
"If someone's paying, Leon's playing."
"Soccer team needs a goalie? How much are they paying?"
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Author: k_leister
Date: 2004-10-24 05:34
I don't know much about the mouthpieces, but I am very certain that Karl Leister uses Vandoren reeds, even Rue-Lepic 56. The german reeds, and perhaps the RL 56, work very well with open German mouthpieces (so good as if it is specially made for them). But, definitely, he does not use Vandoren mouthpieces, at least not their facing.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2004-10-24 16:19
After having been using Pyne and Kanter for some years I switched back to VD B40 for another couple of years. Now I'm on Viotto's version of a B40. Before using Pyne I used various models of Vandoren mp's for many years.
As far as I know Karl Leister is using Wurlizer and Zinner mouthpieces with facing by Zeretsky (sp.) with Vandoren Black or White master reeds.
Alphie
Clarinet/Eb clarinet
RSPO
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-10-24 20:30
"Somebody who can pay their mortgage from Clarinet playing"
Then there aren't any professional clarinetists in Switzerland!
Sorry, I've now gone even more off topic than k_leister!
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Author: frank
Date: 2004-10-25 05:57
Professional meaning as one who makes a living soley on playing clarinet. Paying a mortgage as David put it works too! lol I know of one top professional who endorses Vandoren mouthpieces who does not in fact play them. David... I agree with the inconsistency issue in Vandoren's line of mouthpieces. I have also owned and/or tried nearly every hand made mouthpiece in existence at one time or aniother and find the consistency very random as well, if not more so. I would think a machine made product would have more consistency compared to a hand faced and reamed mouthpiece. A gem is a gem I guess.
Post Edited (2004-10-25 06:02)
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-10-25 11:22
"professional meaning one who makes a living soley on clarinet playing"
well, that sure excludes a lot of amazing clarinet players, and many of the top teachers in the US. I would rate Andrew Uren as one of the best Bass Clarinet players i've heard (and i've heard quite a few including Sparnay and Bok) yet he teaches to pay his mortgage....
meanwhile- Vandoren cover a lot of bases by producing so many different models, and i've heard a lot of players (some of them undoubtedly Professional) sound darn good playing them.
At the same time, i've heard at least one major symphony players sound "not as good as before" after switching from Chedeville (refaced by Hawkins) to a M13. At the time i couldn't work out why this player didn't sound as good as "before" (hearing not just one but several performances).... but i didn't realise that he had changed mouthpieces. Later i found this info out, and discovered that the mouthpiece change had coincided with the concerts i'd heard.
i imagine that 20 years ago it was much harder to get "hand made" mouthpieces outside of the US and parts of Europe- it certainly was very difficult here in NZ.... The opening up of world markets and easier comunications/money transfers etc have made products like Viotto/Greg Smith/Lomax/Gigliotti etc mouthpieces much more accessible to players around the world.... i reckon that a lot more "professional" players used Vandoren in the 1970s than do so now (at least outside the US).... but that's really little more than a guess based on my impression.
donald
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-25 12:50
American professional players
is what the topic is:
Of course there are great non professional players out there.
When a Mouthpiece is hand worked, there is a much greater chance that the bad ones will be set aside or fixed.
I just tried 4 of the M-13 and wasn't impressed at all. Was kinda surprised as I thought they would be a lot better than they were.
Back to the drawing board
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Author: frank
Date: 2004-10-25 18:05
The survey is for American players using Vandoren mouthpieces. In europe, especially France, Vandoren seems to be the only choice. There are many makers in the US so there are more choices in regards to pro level mouthpieces. I am not leaning towards a particular side in mouthpiece choice, only collecting data. I played an M13 for about 3 years until I found another mouthpiece i thought played better (Hawkins). When I played the M13, I sometimes would run into a custom mouthpiece "snob" Usually the person who cops attitude like that isn't very good to begin with anyway. For instance, I did a gig with a player who used an old Kaspar. She saw my M13 and flippantly said "my students use that". Then I heard her play on her beloved Kasper! Needless to say, she sounded like a chainsaw... an out of tune chain saw. lol
I know Manasse uses a Vandoren. I believe Todd Levy in Milwaukee and Greg Raden in Dallas use them as well. Ah... and Anthony Mcgill, soon to be principal in the Met That's all I have for now!
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-10-25 18:28
by the way- the Symphony player i mentioned (who changed to Vandoren and i noticed a perceptible slide in tone quality) was a player in one of the better US orchestras....
yeah- there are a lot of good "non pro" players out there, my quible is that it's a bit rude to say someone is not a pro player because they earn only half of their income playing. For many symphony players teaching etc may only be a small part of their income, but many "sub-ers" live in parts of the world (and i don't mean just NZ, this includes parts of USA) where you can get all the gigs humanly possible, and it's still not enough to survive comfortably on.
it's no big deal
donald
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2004-10-25 20:48
I believe the intention of the original post was to do a survey of players using Vandoren mpcs. It seems that the purpose has been lost in this post (many should offer apologies to Frank). Therefore I respond with the following
After reading the many comments in this posting, I'm left with only one thing to say: WHO CARES WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE USE AS THEIR MOUTHPIECE?!! Equipment is a personal choice and quite frankly, I don't care what one player chooses over another. If they sound great, they sound great. If they don't, they don't. And sound great or like a chainsaw is most certainly the combination of many factors, NOT the mouthpiece ALONE.
Grow up everyone and GO PRACTICE and stop worrying so much about what others are doing.
Apologies Frank,
--Michael
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2004-10-25 21:25
I guess I could be considered a professional clarinet player though I sure couldn't give up my day job. I get paid for playing sometimes, sometimes not. Who cares. We have lots of fun with the improvisation.
Two dixie players, one is me, use Vandoren B45.
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-10-25 22:00
hey Michael- i really agree with you, but he did ask after all, didn't he?
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Author: frank
Date: 2004-10-25 22:47
I agree 100% with Michael in regards to the equipment not being the reason why a player sounds great or not. We've all heard some greats play on our own or others equipment at one time and voila... they sound like themselves! The point of the post is not to discuss and/or argue this fact, but to just get a sampling of Vandoren users. I do not believe I ever stated that the equipment is what makes one great. Getting the right equipment does help to achieve the desired effect though. Otherwise, we would all play on a Bundy and a Vito mouthpiece and be happy. Furthermore, why buy a Kaspar, Chedeville, or Pyne? If the equipment doesn't matter at all, why do some pros choose to perform on these expensive mouthpieces?
I happen to be an equipment junkie (please pity me) but I generally use the same clarinet, ligature and mouthpiece in perfomances. I just like "stuff"... that is all. There are many top pros who play on junk and sound great... and many who are equipment nuts as well. Ricardo Morales for one is a major equipment nut, rivaling almost everyone I know. Stanley Drucker is not. Both great? yes. The whole post was to sort of debunk the mysteries and equipment taboos. Vandoren is a relatively cheap machine made mouthpiece. I delight in the fact that some GREATS use Vandoren and sound awesome and choose not to play on ridiculously expensive equipment - like a $600 Kaspar. As for the chainsaw comment Michael, I was simply stating an irritating encounter I once had. She sounded like crap on my setup too, which she tried. The point was that it didn't matter what she played - a Kaspar or Vandoren or a Vito. I got a kick out of it. SHe put so much stock in owning and having that Kaspar like it was playing the clarinet for her.
Donald... we are not discussing amateur players here. Just people who make a living playing the clarinet and are very discriminating about what they use for equipment. College professors count as well as long as they are professional standard performers. I didn't say everyone had to be a superstar. Freelancers are also part of the mix. The idea is to get a sampling of players who are known for great sounds and being great musicians. Why so angry?
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-10-26 02:56
The mouthpiece thing has gotten too far away from the essential element of producing a stable and basic sound...I sound alike no matter what I play on....as to choice of a mouthpiece I think the tip opening is simply the area which players neglect..not sound. I am comfortable only within a certain parameter...1.06.mm to about 1.19.
I prefer a more closed tip and so the reason why I use my Hite mouthpiece is not just because of the tone, but it works well, artiuculates well for ME>.
I have has students try it and find it shrill, stuffy etc...and then when try something ealse it works better for them!!!
Good playing is good playing and if you got a good sound why change it?
David Dow
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-26 13:12
Yup! Close tip and long facing are what I prefer strongly too.
I also prefer thin rails.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2004-10-27 04:21
If I remember well Bob Crowley principal of the Montreal Symphony owns dozens of mouthpieces both hand made and factory made. He regularly switches models, but I think his most frequently used is an M13Lyre. He might have had it tweaked though...
To me, a non professional player, the quality of the mouthpiece is in the comfort it gives me, not so much the sound it produces...
-S
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: donald
Date: 2004-10-27 07:37
"donald- why so angry"
sorry? what? please read my posting again, i just looked at it and can't find anything that reads angry...? hmmm Frank, i merely suggested that the definition of pro players you gave was excluding a lot of great players... that's all, i didn't suggest that you should also ask high school kids or anything like that...
this posting has had some very interesting input, and i agree with most of the views expressed, even if you all think i'm trying to argue with you, but hasn't actually offered a shower of information to answer Franks question.
on that topic- i just thought of some more players (yes, pro) who use Vandoren- Mary Scott (NZSO), Elsa Lam (China Phil). The easy access to Zinner blanks in the 1990s has eroded the number of Vandoren users, i'm sure..... but both those two players WERE previously using mouthpieces made from zinner blanks, and changed over to Vandoren.
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