 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris Horril
Date: 2004-10-26 07:29
In Britain the Associated Board runs a popular set of clarinet exams from grade 1 through to 8. Is there a similar arrangement in the USA and if so what organisation administers it and is the syllabus available online?
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Author: oxfeely
Date: 2004-10-27 02:09
There was nothing as comprehensive as the ABRSM exams in the states when I was first studying in the 80's. Perhaps something new that I am unaware of has been introduced in the last 15 years.
I'm not at all a fan of the way the ABRSM requires specific editions of works and forbids using teacher's discretion when choosing an edition.
However, I have started using their scale syllabus with most of my younger students - - and most of them respond well to its organized, goal-oriented approach.
There is also a similar system in place in Australia - AMEB (Australian Music Examination Board - I think). Try doing a search for that on the net.
Here in Hong Kong the ABRSM, AMEB and another "Trinity College" set of exams are all popular with parents.
ox
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-10-27 05:34
The ABRSM doesn't insist on specific editions at all! I've been teaching in the UK for more than 20 years, and have used my preferred editions throughout for my woodwind candidates. Often these coincide with their own recommendations (or are the only ones available in any case), but by no means always!
It's slightly different for the piano syllabus, as the AB publish books for the various grades with a selection of the exam pieces, and most people use those - they're good editions anyway - but again you don't HAVE to play from them!
In the syllabus it actually states that any edition may be used, and that the editions quoted are for guidance only.
Joanna Brown
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-10-27 05:39
It kind of surprises me that the USA still doesn't have a national examination body for music ... there must be a reason?
Maybe the whole music examination "thing" is a very British beast ... hence its prevalence in Australia, New Zealand and Canada (two name just three).
There are, however, a whole group of teachers who HATE the examination system (in my experience) and a whole group of others who use it (more or less effectively).
I think it's a good way of determining what works a student might be able to play at a given level ... I don't, however, support sitting to a syllabus and then not giving extra works as many teachers here do to expan repertoire.
As a teacher ... I don't encourage any of my students to sit exams, but I do use the syllabus (not just the AMEB, but also Trinity and RCM) to get a broader range of pieces.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: oxfeely
Date: 2004-10-27 05:41
Joanna, that's encouraging to hear. I think that the implementation of the exams might be a bit off from the original guidelines here in Hong Kong. I have been told that examiners here in Hong Kong don't allow other editions to be used than the ones listed in the Exam book. I'll certainly re-read all the official rules and guidelines, and I'm sure I will find that you are correct. This will certainly improve things here from my point of view - and if any examiner has a problem with my students playing from different editions, I'll be armed with a copy of the official rules to throw back at them!
Thanks!
ox
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-10-27 06:18
I'm delighted that we don't use a standardized exam system. Goodness knows such systems have impersonalized so many other facets of education.
Without having any actual experience with musical testing, I'd see the following drawbacks:
- Potential focus on "playing all the notes" rather than the music
- Each piece of music becomes a thing to conquer, rather than to explore musically (it's bad enough to grade band and solo pieces... I know composers who are a bit disappointed that the first thing many directors wants to know is "What grade is that piece?")
- Might worsen the competitiveness and oneupmanship that's nasty enough already
- Gives the notion that there is a homogenous "good" way to play, due to which a player might, in some way, play what/how s/he thinks the examiner will want to hear.
- Suggests, especially to younger, more impressionable minds, that the higher-level pieces are "better" pieces of music, and further marginalizes the performance and exposure of pieces not on the list, especially new music
Whether these claims are completely unfounded, I don't know, but I find that people like the safety box that a highly structured testing format provides, which I think leads to stagnation.
People like nicely packaged, categorized ways of looking at things, and personally, I like to distance that line of thought from music as much as I can (with perhaps the exception of potential postmodernist titles, such as "A painfully slow Grade 2 piece for middle school band").
In my experience, I haven't seen a need for such an exam system at all, and imagine it would be a bit of a burden, the only benefits of which would be a neat and tidy way of categorizing the quality of performers, a more structured method of busy-work, an easier program for educators to fall back upon, and a delightful little plaque to clutter up one's wall and encourage Grandma and Grandpa to give $20 for congratulations.
From what I can tell, such a system is only relevant for non-professional-grade players... anyone actually going out for gigs can let their playing speak for itself.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-27 11:10
Diz,
You may be closer to the truth with "Maybe the whole music examination "thing" is a very British beast ... hence its prevalence in Australia, New Zealand and Canada ...."
In US colleges and universities, great care is taken so that a person's identity on any exam is kept confidential (scores posted but no names). As I understand it from several former students from teh UK, a person's exam score - good or bad - along with their name is right there for all to see. I suspect that type of posting is the same in CA, AU, and the UK (but I may be wrong).
In HS though, most states have some sort of solo & ensemble contest in the spring each year with a list of acceptable compostions and the correct publication listed. Students perform for a judge and receive a rating. Nothing in tertiary levels though or on a national level.
HRL
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-10-27 11:30
I get the impression the music education in the US is much more integrated into the school curriculum than it is in the UK, and this may be part of the reason that British kids take music exams and US kids don't.
From reading postings here, I get the impression that US schools all have bands, and a high proportion of kids play in them, and their performance in band is taken into account in assessing how well they are doing at school. Is this correct?
When I was at school in England, thirty years ago, relatively few kids played a band or orchestral instrument (though many learnt the piano). My school had over a thousand pupils, but had just one orchestra, with maybe 30 or 40 players. No wind band at all. That was a highly selective academic school, with mostly fairly affluent kids. Albeit a school with an extremely strong drama tradition but little tradition of achievement in music. I played first horn in that orchestra from the age of about 13, and that is no reflection of my ability, just of the lack of players!
The school offered instrumental tuition, on an individual or small-group basis, but the pupils' success counted for nothing in assessing overall achievement. The best players usually got their tuition elsewhere, from private tutors or in the junior programmes of local music colleges.
Maybe things have changed in English schools since then, but I still get the impression that there are significant differences from the US. Do others agree?
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-27 12:27
David,
You are very much on track as to the music education scheme in US schools. What you describe in your secondary education might be what is seen more in Europe.
I remember studying comparative education systems way back in undergraduate school and there are distinct difference. To give you an idea about high school marching band programs in the US, check out this website.
http://www.mchsband.com/mbonline/
And here is a typical college marching band (OK, not so typical).
http://mmb.music.umich.edu/
If you have high-speed internet access be sure to go to the percussion section home page and view the video of Temptation (a Michigan Marching Band tradition - this is exciting even for an Ohio State fan to see).
HRL
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-10-27 13:06
Nice one Hank! Michigan an example of a 'typical' marching band!![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
Oh. And in case you guys from the UK are interested in seeing the typical types of cars driven on our streets to get from marching band performance to another here in the US just go here . . . . . www.ferrari.com
Alexi ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-10-27 16:30
David,
Yes, almost all US schools have bands. Music Ed in the schools is still a sticky point when administrators begin to discuss budget cuts, however!
And Hank mentioned the solo/ensemble competitions. These are entirely voluntary and almost never (in my experience) a requirement to play in the school band. They are a really good thing though, IMO.
You asked whether music performance impacts a student's general ed performance level. This is not necessarily the case. Band/Orchestra/Choir are usually taken as a class credit, and a grade is given, which is factored into the grade point average. Success in music, however, does NOT by itself indicate that the student is performing well academically. Frequently the students who play at a higher level ARE performing well academically, but I have at least one student who is first chair in her band and really is only average academically...
Katrina
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Author: Bart Hendrix
Date: 2004-10-27 19:34
Unfortunately, at least in California where I teach, the music and art programs are normally the first to be cut when the budget gets tight. We are fortunate in having very strong teachers in both areas (one each) and the community would not stand for the elimination of their programs (the music teacher has organized a parent support group). When I was in high school (too many years ago) it was pretty much a given that every high school had a strong music program. Sadly, that is no longer the case.
As for academics, while there will always be individual exceptions, there are a number of well conducted studies that show a clear positive connection between participation in a music program and better academic performance. I can support those studies both in academic and discipline areas with anecdotal experience in my own classroom.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-10-28 05:49
I think that we could use an exam system here. I remember investigating a system from England that had a different acronym. I had two problems with it:
1 - The list of acceptable music was too narrow, and few if any American publications would be accepted.
2 - It seemed a bit slow to me in introducing scales. I can understand a little delay on the minors, but I think that the major scales should be learned and used at a faster pace.
I disagree with the notion that an exam system would work against creativity and/or musicality. Competence levels vary wildly from area to area, and there are huge disparities from place to place here in Virginia. Many high school bands are at such a low level that even their first-chair players don't see a necessity to know all their scales, or even attempt some sort of solo or small-group piece. I think that a standardized exam system issuing certificates at each level of completion would do much to encourage and reward students who reach for competency levels that their school band does not demand of them.
As for the integration of bands in school, and the effect of band performance on the students' instrumental grades: In order to have sufficient numbers, most American school bands cannot demand but so much technical competence from their students. I think you'll find that the grades issued in many (if not most) localities reflects student conduct, attendance, and attitude much more than it does a level of instrumental competence.
On the effect of competency systems on instruction in general. I agree that the spectre of standardized testing is a major pain to educators. But this results from a ludicrous level of subjectivity in the past that has left us with almost no standards at all. And let's face it, instrumental music education may have the highest failure rate of all in terms of real-world standards.
Wasn't there a system in New York called NYSSMA? Would this system provide a good model for a US system?
Allen Cole
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-28 06:47
allencole wrote:
> Wasn't there a system in New York called NYSSMA? Would this
> system provide a good model for a US system?
WARNING! MAJOR TIRADE AHEAD:
I am a NYSSMA judge and feel that the adjudication and scoring in New York can be greatly improved. Over the past few decades the NYSSMA Solo and Ensemble Festival has become less and less manageable and much more like a factory experience.
Each year tens of thousands of students play their prepared solo, scales and do sight reading in front of NYSSMA judges during a 3 month period at various weekend (and recently mid-week) locations throughout the state. NYSSMA is under enormous pressure to find enough certified judges for the influx of students. Since there often are not enough judges to go around, they frequently are forced to hire non-certified temporary judges to fill in the gaps of coverage.
The scoring, in my opinion, on the advanced level has become very inflated. Students routinely are given 6A or 6A+ scores on performances which are less than stellar. Judges are always reminded to keep within a strict time frame, but the evaluations are often rushed, with judges seemingly spending more time filling out the evaluation form rather than actually critically listening to the solo. However, even with the built in time constraints, judging still gets backlogged, with many judges running one or two hours behind the posted schedule. I have heard many students giving sloppy, careless performances on technical solos, only to be given superior scores due to the many fast passages. I often wonder if the judge was actually even carefully listening to the solo or just trying to finish filling out the form.
The grading of the solo literature is inconsistant and arbitrary. The Weber and Brahms works, for example, have been moved up and down in the manual between Level 5 and 6 without rhyme or reason. Some major pieces of the repertoire disappear for years on end while other works of much less quality have been staples of the NYSSMA catalogue for decades.
On the Elementary level, it seems that EVERY student, no matter how well or poorly prepared is sent to NYSSMA competition by their school music teacher, thus clogging the entire system. Pity the poor judge who must sit through the SAME Grade 1 clarinet solo played by 10 straight elementary students, all from the same school (and all making the same errors). Judges are instructed to encourage the youngest participants (a good thing) but by not fairly critiquing the poorer players is not truthful to the student, parent or school district.
School music teachers take careful note: Sending all 60 of your first year instrumentalists to the NYSSMA Solo Competition just to impress your principal is wrong and is putting an unmanageable strain on the entire NYSSMA system. NYSSMA should be for the students who work hard, not for inflating one's own ego.
The good news - school music in New York is growing, with more students than ever before playing instruments.
The bad news - mediocrity is the norm. Fewer and fewer outstanding students are emerging. The number of students studying privately (in even the bigger school districts) can be counted on one hand.
NYSSMA as a good role model for the US system? Not at the present time ...GBK
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-10-28 16:18
A standardized testing system for musicians sounds too much like a licensing system to me. It makes me think of the Professional Engineers exam or that for becoming a Certified Public Accountant. ("Sorry, until you pass the Level 5 exam, you aren't licensed to play that piece of music.") Would one advocate a standard exam system for visual artists?
One comment to GBK -- You say that in the NYSSMA competition judges are instructed to encourage the youngest participants, but then appear to equate that to not fairly critiquing the poorer players. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. One can fairly critique anyone and still be encouraging. ("You tend to rush the sixteenth notes, but this is something you should be able to overcome by...") Another effective way to be constructive and encouraging is to start and end the critique with things that were done well, sandwiching items that need improving in between.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-28 16:47
I've always had a problem with the NYSSMA judging of the youngest (Level 1) students. Judges are instructed to be as positive as possible with the beginners (again, a good thing) but the actual scoring (for a grade) of the Level 1 students, in my opinion, should be abolished.
As practically all students on Level 1 are given outstanding ratings (basically just for showing up), it is, in essence, meaningless.
It would be far better to offer "comments only" for all Level 1 participants and begin the actual scoring with Level 2...GBK
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2004-10-28 17:19
Don wrote: "Would one advocate a standard exam system for visual artists?"
I'm not sure there is a parallel. Visual artists are generally expected to be creative in a way that performing musicians are not. A painter is analogous to a composer, not to a clarinet player.
---
I argued above that the existence of standardised exams in England, but not in the US, is due to the differences in music education. But on reflection, I see that maybe there is a better explanation. English schools have standardised exams for all academic subjects. An English schoolchild, if fairly bright academically, sits examinations 8 or more subjects at age 16 (GCSEs) and in 3 or more at age 18 (A-levels). These examinations are largely standardised across England. The examination boards prescribe a detailed curriculum for each subject, and this largely determines what the schools teach. Achievement in these exams is by far the most important criterion by which universities choose between applicants.
It is possible to sit GCSE and A-level exams in music, but only as an academic subject. You can't do GCSE clarinet-playing or A-level piano. That's where the ABRSM exams come in.
As I understand it, there is no equivalent system of academic exams in the US. Therefore perhaps it is not so surprising that there is also no equivalent system of music exams.
(There is increasing concern in England that kids are specialising too young, and we may move to a system of academic exams more like that of France or Germany. Some privately-funded schools already use such a system. But that's another story.)
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-10-28 22:06
At my school, music can't be cut. You can't cut something that doesn't get any money to begin with.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-10-29 02:25
"I'm not sure there is a parallel. Visual artists are generally expected to be creative in a way that performing musicians are not. A painter is analogous to a composer, not to a clarinet player."
Perhaps this is why so many student clarinet performances seem so labored and uninspired these days.
I quite like the licensing-system analogy... so many musicians I hear seem to be of the play-all-the-notes-properly-and-fast-enough mentality, to some degree (I'm often guilty of it myself). Musicality is often something that is tacked on afterwards, sometimes genuinely but often in the form of "now REALLY play the articulations and dynamics" or "move your body around a lot", or even more appropriate formulaic means such as "shape phrases by getting louder and faster then softer and slower." Often, it feels like one is just going through the motions, seeing how many items from the "accuracy" and "musicality" checklists they can put a tick mark next to, rather than finding the music, and in that sense, I suppose a standard examination might be quite appropriate.
I might suggest that a performer has the potential to do as much creatively as a painter. Sure, you aren't doing it with a blank canvas, but there are millions of ways to play each note/phrase/etc. in each context... once a performer realizes that a note/phrase/etc. is not a static entity, the options for personal influence are limitless.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-10-29 06:36
Glenn,
Your tirade was very informative. We have similar problems in Virginia, with All-District Band auditions. Band directors are desperate for something to wake up their students and many rural schools will empty a busload of kids at the auditions. On clarinet, this can mean 100-200 students for a single set of judges. Must judges that I know are exhausted by the onslaught of poor performances. One flute judge told me a couple of years ago that her day behind the screen was 'tragic'
Mediocrity is on the rise, and real musical interest is down. And it sounds like things are pretty subjective up there in NY at higher levels.
Perhaps we need to find a system that separates the concrete from the abstract. I have been trying to set up some sort of certificate system in my studio, where students will have something to show for what they pass off. However, I think that we may profit more from issuing certificates for technical competence where there are more concrete critera for grades, judging, etc.
I try to set up a pass/fail system for certain competencies sorted into logical groups. I can argue all day long with anyone about what is and isn't musical. Technical competence is more cut and dried, and the lack of it is an enormous threat to musicality. I would like to provide some method of testing and rewarding technical competence.
Performance competitions might be better left to the local music teacher's association. These folks seem to do pretty well with the piano and violin kids. Plus I encounter many highly competent kids who would be an asset to any ensemble, but who are often sheepish about or disinterested in repertoire.
If some standards could be arrived at, perhaps students could be evaluated for technical competence on a pass/fail basis by a wider circle of potential judges than you would want to have for solo/ensemble judging.
Don,
I will admit that this does smack a bit of licensing, but having some established system of levels would be helpful in trying to place students in various playing opportunities. Each summer I have a world-class headache trying to match up my own students in chamber groups. I would love to be able to do this in conjunction with a couple of other teachers, but we need to be able to pidgeonhole students well enough to set up the groups with personnel who will not frustrate each other.
Lesson business is dropping, band quality is dropping, and the number of students with even a passing interest in classical music is fading fast. I don't think that some standards would hurt the system any more than it already is.
Glenn, one suggestion for the current NYSSMA situtation. How about tape recorded comments? Have each student provide one cassette per judge. This would allow the judge to fill out simple forms while making comments orally. Would probably save both time and writers cramp.
Allen Cole
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Author: Squirrel
Date: 2004-10-29 10:01
Something I've noticed from hanging around this board is that in the US learning a musical instrument seems much more group-oriented than here in Australia. I may be wrong, but from what I've read it seems that people in the USA join their school band on whatever instrument takes their fancy (or is needed in the band) and then learn how to play it on the fly usually, with only a few taking private lessons. That's completely different here: At my school, what usually happens (At least with people who come to the school at the start of highschool (year 8 here)) is that someone starts getting lessons on an instrument in year 8 if they want to, and after a month or two they're sent along to the non-auditioned beginner-type band. I didn't play in it until I could play in upper register with reasonable reliability...
I think this has an influence on the exams too... The Australian system from what I've seen (And admittedly I'm just a highschool student from the most isolated of our cities) is far more based on solo achievement, and so there are standardised levels (I've never taken AMEB exams, but I do use their technical work syllabus book and my teacher often uses the exams to motivate his less motivated students ). The American system, however, seems to have far more exams and competitions etc. for entire bands/orchestras. There are two of those in my state that I know of: One for jazz and one for classical.
I'm sorry I don't have enough experience with AMEB exams to vouch for their usefulness, but from what I can tell they seem to be mostly (by my teacher at least) used as a motivational tool to give students something to work for, seeing as ensemble-related goals are not seen as particularily important.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-29 11:17
Allen - thanks for your ideas and suggestions to improve the evaluation experience. I will pass along your comments to those in charge to see if they will be considered.
Certainly a fresh approach is overdue and just might solve some of the logistical logjams and ease the burden on the judges.
We all know that change can be very slow in coming, but planting a few seeds of ideas could reap benefits for all ...GBK
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-10-30 07:21
To me, the scariest part of these things is that they're so often developed by committees, and the temptation is there to keep adding bells and whistles to the basic idea until it is overloaded and loses its central focus.
In Virginia, we have three separate things:
Solo/Ensemble Festival - technically not a competition, but scores are being chased
Band & Orchestra Festivals - scored band performances
Elite Bands/Orchestras - All-County, All-District, All-State. For students selected by audition, of course.
I would like to see a system of individual player competencies that is kept separate from these other activities.
It sounds like the NYSSMA thing heads south when it combines with solo/ensemble grading or competition. We have the same problem with inflated grading in our Solo & Ensemble festivals, except it isn't limited to the beginners. I've NEVER had a student get less than an overall "I". Once, a seventh grader got a "I++". To say the least, we are grading on a hairpin curve.
Allen Cole
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