 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-17 18:48
Ruth Ann is a very caring teacher and what they did to her is completely unacceptable. It isn't like she took one of her pills out and said to the student "here, try this and see if it helps you".
Jeez......... those jackasses
She's very active in the Flute world and I would think/hope will get another job soon.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-17 19:33
Decreased sexual ability? ....GBK
/cancels current prescription for Beta blockers ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-10-17 20:31
If Ruth Ann wasn't handing out pills, and it seems highly unlikely that she would have done such a thing, the punishment is for a crime not committed. Would she have been fired for recommending a student go see an orthodontist to get correction for an overbite that was interfering with embouchere? Beta blockers occur naturally in food products for crying out loud. I know plenty of performers who will eat bananas or turkey sandwiches for lunch to get their mellow. I also know more than a few who have found their nerves in sedatives, booze, and other interesting pharmacological substances. And yes, many, many who find their Zen and get it done without help of any kind.
In the pantheon of chemical compensation for musicians though, this doesn't even rate. A tempest truly in search of a teapot.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-17 21:02
GBK, if it still works and allz well in the bedroom, I'd keep using it till ya can't remember what it's for
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-10-18 15:53
Among other things, the Times story says that the dose musicians take is both small and infrequent. Thus the side efects are unlikely.
It's not 100% clear from the story, but as I read it, the teacher told her students to got to their doctors. That hardly seems unethical to me.
I'm on one of the newer beta blockers for other reasons, with no side effects, other than I don't get nervous in stressful situations, which I count as a plus.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-18 16:22
"...GBK, if it still works and allz well..."
My posting, thankfully, was facetious.
I don't take any medications what so ever and haven't had alcohol since college. Don't enjoy the taste and it makes me too sleepy.
Although I have heard some Mozart performances which I would have been better off sleeping through ...GBK
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-10-19 07:11
I had a flute teacher in college who dispensed Dolemite. I think that the effect was mostly placebo.
Allen Cole
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Author: Garret
Date: 2004-10-20 03:41
I've tried playing after half a glass of wine or beer and they've turned out to be wasted practice time. I've tried meditation before recitals, I've also tried eating certain foods like bananas and drinking diet 7-Up to settle my stomach. I still have major performance anxiety. My knees used to shake when playing for contest when I had to stand. I sit for recitals so I don't pass out or have to worry about shaking knees or unintentional vibrato.
It's not like Ruth Ann is advocating crack cocaine or meth. I've heard of others using beta blockers to decrease performance anxiety. It might be something I'd like to try, after talking to my M.D., BUT ONLY after talking to my M.D.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-10-20 13:01
Garret,
If you have not done so, you could also try eliminating caffeine (coffee, tea, chocolate, etc.) a day before playing.
Some people are able to reduce anxiety by breathing very slowly and deeply with eyes closed.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Ben
Date: 2004-10-21 14:45
For me, Beta Blockers were the only thing that helped with severe anxiety. The only side effect I have noticed is being a little tired afterward. But since most concerts are in the evening, you just go to bed afterward anyhow.
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Author: Pappy
Date: 2004-10-21 16:57
My wife is a physician but HATES public speaking. She routinely take a single beta blocker before having to give a speech, etc. but only then. It works for her and there are few side effects if used that way. Most side effects listed are for those who take them on an ongoing basis (I didn't read the article since I'm not registered with the NYT, but I assumed it was about using Beta Blockers to reduce stage fright. ) Of course you should discuss it with a doctor, but the practice is not unusual.
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2004-10-22 21:38
If you don't want to register for the NYT the same article can be found at:
<http:www.iht.com/articles/2004/10/20/features/jitters.html>
www.iht.com has many articles and columnists from the NYT available without registration.
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Author: TimeGuardian
Date: 2004-10-24 20:47
"See, I think drugs have done some *good* things for us, I really do.
And if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a
favor: Go home tonight and take all your albums, all your tapes, and all
your cd's and burn em'. Cause you know what? The musicians who've made
all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years...
RRRRRRRRRRRRReal ...... high on drugs." - tool
How about louis armstrong.. or any other really good jazz musicians with their marijuana.. that has a huge influence on their music.
My choice is what I choose to do, and if I'm causin no harm it shoudln't bother you.. Your choice is who you choose to be, and if you're causin no harm then you're alright with me.. - Ben harper
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-25 13:04
And it was drugs that killed Charile Parker, Bill Evans, Elvis, Hendrix and countless others......
Post Edited (2004-10-25 13:12)
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-10-25 14:07
Just some observations:
The author of the article, Blair Tindell, works with me here in NYC.
We had discussed her article before it went to print.
I told her I had never needed the Beta-blockers she discussed in her article, but some of the guys I knew, years ago, "did the drug thing." I grew up in Detroit, which back then was a great Mecca for the jazzers, so some of the very good players got high in their attempt to play better.
I'm sorry to say those very good musicians from my early days all died quite young, they are no longer with us. They played well, lived hard, did drugs, and died. Most of there names are long forgotten, but I do remember their playing and their spirit.
Beta-blockers may help some, drugs KILL.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: TimeGuardian
Date: 2004-10-25 22:19
Yeah, but it depends on what kind of drugs you're talking about...
I'm just saying drugs have helped music, even though those people die after awhile.. but a soft drug like weed has never killed anyone, and that really enhances music. People like bob marley or louis armstrong just wouldn't be the same without it.
My choice is what I choose to do, and if I'm causin no harm it shoudln't bother you.. Your choice is who you choose to be, and if you're causin no harm then you're alright with me.. - Ben harper
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-10-26 01:15
"I'm just saying drugs have helped music, even though those people die after awhile.. but a soft drug like weed has never killed anyone, and that really enhances music. People like bob marley or louis armstrong just wouldn't be the same without it."
I'm afraid I can't agree with you, TimeGuardian.
Weed can and has killed, just look at some medical results of the causes of death of many young and older people. If you "believe" it enhances your music, perhaps it does, I don't think so. I believe it has done more harm to great music and musicians, than any good that has come directly from smoking weed.
Drugs have killed, or lead to the deaths of many of our greatest musicians.
If we haven't learned that tobacco, alcohol, and weed have all caused premature deaths, than we learned nothing as musicians.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Ben
Date: 2004-10-26 11:25
Haven't cigarettes killed more musicians than all other drugs combined? I remember one of my teachers telling me back in the 40-50s most of the top wind players he knew smoked.... Robert Marcellus, Julius Baker, all the wind players he knew at Juilliard, etc.
Compared to many things, beta-blockers are quite tame. I think a good glass of wine will affect one 10x more than a beta-blocker, or at least that has been my perception (although I wouldn't mix the two). For the musicians out there who are otherwise prepared to play their best, but shake like a leaf due to nervousness during a concert/audition (or have some equally bad phsyical sign of a problem), I think they are a very legitimate avenue to explore. For someone who can control the flow of adrenaline through other methods, or has a different body which may produce much less adrenaline under similar circumstances, then they would serve little or no use.
Drugs/chemicals can be a tool; just like food, sleep, or a good reed are tools. Everyone has different needs with respect to these things, dependant on physiological differences, and what you are wishing you body to allow you to do. So if you want to play the Mozart concerto infront of an audience, and the only way to be satisfied with your performance is to take a beta-blocker, why not? Particulary if there are no side affects. But, even if they were, one could gauge them against the benifits of playing better, and decide whether they were justified.
If you really want to examine some drugs that are bad for you, take a crack at most of the chemicals put into foods at places like Mc. Donald's!
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2004-10-26 14:48
I'm all for those who need the available Beta-blockers, to try them, under their Doctor's supervision. Perhaps they will help with their problems.
I am very much against some of the younger players who think their performances will be "enhanced" by some more serious drugs such as:
Weed (Marijuana)
Coke
Crack
Heroin
Acid
Speed
and many other newer "enhanced drugs."
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
Post Edited (2004-10-26 14:52)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-26 15:08
The USA is a caffeine drenched society.
It is a drug which is not spoke about often enough.
Most people ingest more daily than they realize ...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-26 15:13
What's really [messed] up is that Diet Sodas have almost 50% more caffeine in them!!
No wonder diet soda non-caffeine tastes so nasty.
Hey, I just noticed that I before E except after F applies here.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-26 16:21
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Hey, I just noticed that I before E except after F applies
> here.
Not always...
defied
goofier
beefier
unified
codified
pacifier
amplifiers
battlefields
-and hundreds more
...GBK
/goes back to todays NY Times crossword puzzle
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2004-10-26 16:42
Timeguardian-
Your way off base. Tool uses drugs to market the music they play. All the jazz artists you mentioned only lived to their late 20s early 30s. Parker was a much better player off of drugs. Coltrane realised this so he locked himself in a woodshed and kicked his habbit cold turkey!
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2004-10-26 16:43
GBK --
Foul! Goofier? Beefier? Pacifier? Amplifier?
Then how about these "c" words:
racier
lacier
spacier (speaking of drugs)
even glacier?
Besides, the real rule is: "i" before "e" except after "d". As in:
deified
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
Post Edited (2004-10-26 16:44)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-26 16:53
Todd W. wrote:
> Then how about these "c" words:
>
> racier
> lacier
> spacier (speaking of drugs)
> even glacier?
and for you 15 letter word fans: insufficiencies
...GBK
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Author: katchow
Date: 2004-10-26 16:54
BTW Timeguardian, you're quote comes from Bill Hicks (comedian)...i'm guessing Tool must have sampled it or something...
Mr. Hicks died in 1994 of pancreatic cancer, he was 32.
i've taken beta-blockers before. not for stage fright though. i couldn't imagine just taking one here and there. its something that needs to be taken regularly to reach a balance. In fact, most will notice for the first week or so of taking them they can make you a little more jittery than usual.
And also, beta-blockers are in no way an equivalent to drinking alcohol. not even close...
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Author: TimeGuardian
Date: 2004-10-28 00:05
Weed.. a hard drug lol. How can you even classify weed with narcotics.. it's less harmful then the booze you probably consume all the time while shaking your head at pot smokers.
What a world of completely brainwashed people. Get your head out of your...
Sinkdrain, the only jazz artist I said was louis armstrong and he lived until 70 while smoking alot of cigs, drinking, and smoking weed. He quit drinking when he started smoking cannabis.
Rodney dangerfield just died at 82, and he smoked weed his whole life without cigs. Smoked a nice bowl for him the other day.. RIP rodney.
If I can live until that age.. It's seems good enough to me. My goal in life isn't to live the longest, it's to have the best time while I'm here.
Anywho, some of you should consider reading the cannabis section of erowid.com, doctors have used that site to save a patient that had overdosed on a hard drug of some sort because they knew it had the real proven information.
A guy I know emailed freevibe.com to point out how much false information they are putting out, and they emailed him back saying they see his concern, and that they've gotten many angry emails and phone calls about it, but the site is aimed at keeping minors off drugs by whatever means possible. a.k.a lies..
Anywho people, stop being so naive about this. You hear people tell you something, then you belive it and make it a solid fact in your mind. It's like school rumors, one person can say something, lie or not, and everyone will believe it and will keep passing what they hear on.
Most of what you hear are just government scare tactics. Nobody has EVER died directly from cannabis. If the government can say marijuana gives you aids like they did during reefer madness, then what's stopping them from making other lies. Once they find out marijuana isn't very bad at all.. they aren't just going to say "opps we made a mistake" because people will be furious because of how much tax payers money they've wasted all those years.
As I've said before in the other thread I posted in.. rent the movie grass.
Just say know;)
My choice is what I choose to do, and if I'm causin no harm it shoudln't bother you.. Your choice is who you choose to be, and if you're causin no harm then you're alright with me.. - Ben harper
Post Edited (2004-10-28 01:09)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-28 00:28
TimeGuardian wrote:
> My goal in life isn't to live the longest,
> it's to have the best time while I'm here.
"Live fast - die young" - Now there's an inspiring motto to follow.
Since it seems that all common sense rationale has been thrown out the window, then it must be the drugs doing the talking.
Just let us know the days and times you are behind the wheel of a car so the rest of us can stay home in safety.
Some people need external stimuli to get through life. Others simply find life itself giving them enough of a high...GBK
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Author: TimeGuardian
Date: 2004-10-28 00:43
Simple solution to the danger I supposedly cause would be to not drive highm even though people do tend to drive slower and are more aware because of their paranoia.
Getting high isn't the only think I do.. and if it were effecting me to the point where I couldn't have any good judgement then I wouldn't be doing as well as I am in school and such. My grades actually went up since I started smoking weed a few years ago if you would care to know.
Nobody needs weed to get through life.. it's just a bonus entertaining thing along the way. Just like you and music, you enjoy doing it, and it probably makes your days alot more enjoyable, but you don't need it.
Sorry you have to be so naive about this.. you don't know what you're missing. Listening to music while high is amazing, you feel it through your body and pretty much feel apart of it. Smoke a joint once, then listen to music.. it just adds the cherry to the top of the sunday.
I bet you didn't actually read and take into consideration any of those sites that I said in previous posts.
Well, enough said on this.. you aren't going to agree with me and dido.. so have a good one anyway - peace
My choice is what I choose to do, and if I'm causin no harm it shoudln't bother you.. Your choice is who you choose to be, and if you're causin no harm then you're alright with me.. - Ben harper
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-10-28 00:56
TimeGuardian wrote:
> It doesn't matter what's right,
> it's only wrong if you get caught...
Make sure to use that line the first time you are standing in front of the man in the black robe.
Remorse? It's a pretty good word to know.
When I hear somebody say, "It's only wrong if you get caught", I have to wonder, "If you were worried about being caught, doesn't that mean it was wrong?"
...GBK
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Author: TimeGuardian
Date: 2004-10-28 00:59
I posted in the new clarinet thread that I didn't take that quote seriously.
There obviosuly is right right from wrong whether you get caught or not in my opinion.. whether you believe things are right or wrong because it says so in the bible, or because you have morals or whatever is up you.
And since everyone seems to be hating that quote.. I'll change it for you guys. Happy?
My choice is what I choose to do, and if I'm causin no harm it shoudln't bother you.. Your choice is who you choose to be, and if you're causin no harm then you're alright with me.. - Ben harper
Post Edited (2004-10-28 01:04)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-10-28 01:31
TimeGuardian wrote:
> What a world of completely brainwashed people. Get your head
> out of your...
>
....
> Anywho, some of you should consider reading the cannabis
> section of erowid.com, doctors have used that site to save a
> patient that had overdosed on a hard drug of some sort because
> they knew it had the real proven information.
Just remember, as an old song goes, "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest ..."
Goes for both sides on the drug discussions.
This started as a rational thread on legal anti-anxiety drugs as and when prescribed by a doctor. I'll not let it descend into a discussion for or against the promotion of currently illicit drugs. There's plenty of other forums for that.
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