 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-16 18:36
Hi,
I have been toying with the topic of transfering several of the long play records I have to CD and I need some advice. I have chatted with Hans by email on the topic and he is a wealth of information. However, he uses a little different setup than I am planning. Here is what I plan to do.
I play the record on my Yamaha turntable (still a nice piece of equipment) and feed the output into my receiver; I then connect the tape output (or maybe the line output) from the reciever to the stereo input on the computer sound card; then burn the CD on the computer with Roxio as usual.
Does this seem to be a logical setup? Are there any obvious logic errors in the process that I have missed? Intuitively, my process seems to be correct but there may be others out there that have more experience and can perhaps steer me away from any problems.
BTW, Hans has shared a CD of a terrific Canadian big band that has been available previously only on records. Other than an occassional needle or surface pop, the sound is outstanding.
HRL
PS I plan to copy only records that are not and probably will never be re-issued on CD (small demand or obscure).
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-10-16 19:14
Hank...makes sense the way you're doing it. I myself make cassette tape dupes of the lps first only because I don't want to bring my turntable up from the basement.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-10-16 19:15
I've copied a couple of hundred LPs from my collection (many have never been re-issued) using a similar process; I use the tape out from my receiver so I can monitor the playback. Also, I try & find the loudest sections so I can set the level first.
I use some software to clean up the tracks later (separates the tracks, cleans up the bad pops & clicks) and then burn the CD.
I only copy my own LPs; you're not supposed to be copying LPs you don't own, but I'm sure you already know that. Salvation Army stores are a veritable treasure of old LPs, and classical / jazz LPs tend to be in very good shape. Probably a quarter of my collection is from SA, most of the rest is from what the classical radio station in Interlochen, Michigan gave away when they converted from LPs to CDs and gave their collection away to the students. My son & I took everything we could ...
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-16 19:47
Hi,
BobD, I would think you'd move your computer to the basement. With two drumsets, several Vito clarinets, and the huge number of other, really cool treasures you have down there, why not the computer?
MarkC, Sounds like I'm on the right track. Yes, I would not be copying anything I do not already own. Anything in the Interlochen treasure chest from 1953-1955 (my years there)? I think you are right about looking for some older LPs at the Salvation Army/Goodwill stores. With this new-found power to copy to CD, my collection can really include some cool stuff.
HRL
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-10-16 22:42
Hank...that's a good suggestion but since my wife and I moved to the basement there's no longer enough room for the computer there. We rented out the upstairs...except the computer room.....like all other good Bohemians.
Bob Draznik
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-10-17 01:02
My burner is of the Hi-Fi variety not computer. I have just communicated with Hans and this is what I wrote:
I record to the burner using its ''analogue'' and''manual'' mode and I plug a cable from the headphone socket on my amplifier to the analogue input at the back of the burner. And, from there I record each track separately otherwise an LP ( if left to just play through) becomes just one enormous 20 minute track as does the ''B'' side.
Additionally, I feel that dubbing direct from LP to CD to be the ultimate aim as recording to (say) a cassette first and then to CD - no matter how high the quality of the cassette recorder, - one will always lose a % of the quality of the original recording, in the process.
I'd appreciate any help or ideas.
thanks,
jk
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-10-17 01:55
Its of much interest to read of the "how", if one has the equipment to do so. I have a friend who can "burn CD's", wish he'd return my Artie S LP's. I just got thru cassette-taping off a T Dorsey [Side A ] and a G Miller [B] as our comm band is playing " Sedimental", and I'd like the tempo and phrasing to be somewhat similar, without having to tell our cond. what to do !! Can play both in our car, great for travel in the boonies. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-17 02:24
Hi,
My reading (supported by street sense) seems to indicate that the output from the receiver to the input on the computer should be a line with level output (no volume control) like the tape out or line out. The output from the receiver (the input of the record player) will then be of sufficient volume so that excessive noise will not be present; any adjustements will then be made on the computer using software.
You can tell that I am not an electronics techie!
HRL
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2004-10-17 03:54
Be sure the turntable is into the magnetic pickup input of the receiver (usually labeled "phono.") My new suround 5.1 receiver doesn't have one!
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-10-17 04:06
For a dead technology, vinyl is very much alive and well. Even though a lot of receivers don't have phono inputs anymore (and by the way, a lot of the less-known "boutique" brands are including them again), you can buy inexpensive as well as insanely expensive new outboard phono preamps that step up moving coil and moving magnet cartridges to line level that will work for computer dubbing. There are a number of them available for between $100 - $300 that are perfect for this application, and sound pretty good as well.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-17 09:36
Jim and Mark,
Good calls on the phono input but all of my Yamaha receivers (I actually have three and one is a very recent edition) have phono inputs.
However, I have a Nikko Alpha, Beta, and Gamma set-up (amp, pre-amp, and analog tuner respectively) as well as a Toshiba anaolog receiver in the original boxes up in the attic if needed.
I knew there was a reason to keep those ancient pieces of recent audio history around.
HRL
PS I remember assembling my first Heathkit in 1956; it didn't work due to a wiring error.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-10-17 13:28
Hey, that's a great test for age - just ask em "what is Heathkit?"
:)
That was a great company! Radio Shack on Steroids.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-10-17 16:08
I cut my electronics teeth kit-building HK's and Dynakits with my father. Graduated to building Haflers. Good stuff!
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-10-17 18:24
I would like to echo Mark C's comment about finding the loudest sections to set the level first - it's very important.
Mark, the software I have tried for cleaning up music from LPs has been disappointing. Would you please share with us what software you use to do this? Thank you.
Hans
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-10-17 21:47
hans wrote:
> Would you please share with us what software you use to do this?
Adobe Audition 1.5 (used to be CoolEdit 2000). Not cheap ...
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Author: ken
Date: 2004-10-18 01:05
Hank has motivated me to get off my duff and transfer my vinyl and tape, but what a monumental project for we audiophiles. I've got over 250, 60-minute cassettes in 5 years of clarinet lessons to reassign. But I have no excuse as I shot the wad on a Sound Blaster Audigy 2ZS Pro sound card; I need to start using it for more than playback and simple burning, and discopy.
I think I'll also need to look into a clean-up program like Adobe Audition as I've got 2,000-plus 78rpms (given by my father) that are popcorn city. v/r Ken
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-18 02:19
Ken,
Always happy to provide a little nudge. The 78s might turn out to be some interesting additions.
I have discovered a small problem with the Data Becker Music CD software. Evidently there is a compability problem with XP and a search of some BBs has not yielded a quick fix. One person indicated that Musicmatch is cheap, easy to use, and provides excellent results.
Anyone have any experience with Musicmatch?
HRL
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-10-18 03:59
FWIW - Roxio Toast now comes with plug ins for de-noising and de-clicking sound files. There are also light editions of BIAS products for recording and for editing/cleaning files (BIAS Peak LE and Soap LE).
Ken, the 78s may not be as bad as you think. If played on a modern deck with modern cartridge (78rpm compliant, of course), you'd be surprised how much clean, quiet, detailed information there is buried deep in those grooves. There is an unfortunate sonic tradeoff with the inexpensive software plug ins, particularly as you get more aggressive with the de-noising. The better the source you start from, the better the end result. Have fun -- I've got two shelves of 78s I have yet to tackle. Prized recordings with Daniel Bonade, Ralph MacLane, Robert McGinnis. Ear candy!
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Author: Phat Cat
Date: 2004-10-18 11:01
Ya gotta love msloss's quote:
"Prized recordings with Daniel Bonade, Ralph MacLane, Robert McGinnis. Ear candy!"
Where but on this forum would you find this statement, as well as folks who understand and agree with it?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-18 11:11
Jeff,
That's the great thing about the BB. Also, I posted this just about 24 hours ago and gotten some really great feedback. But best of all, found that there are others either doing or plannig to do the same thing as I.
I really do have some really great stuff that will never be recored on CD that is a terrible waste by being up in storage.
HRL
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-10-18 14:58
I've tried at least 3 different programs to filter noise when transfering from phono records to CD, Spin Doctor (part of Adaptec EZ Creator 4.0), CoolEdit 2000 and Goldwave 4.26. I have been most pleased with the results of CoolEdit. However, given that these programs tend to reduce the spectral content my opinion is they should be avoided when possible. For a long time there was an evaluation version of CoolEdit (limited functionality) available but I see it is no longer on the web. There is a 30 day version of Goldwave at http://www.goldwave.com/ to try out. I was never able to set its noise reduction module up to my satisfaction. However, I have not tried newer versions which may do better.
Note that not only CoolEdit but Goldwave have FFT modules that allow you to slow down music tempo without altering pitch.
The version of Goldwave I use appears to still be available as limited functionality shareware at
http://www.pt.lu/comnet/desc/goldwave.html and an even older version can be found here http://www.sonicspot.com/goldwave/goldwave.html
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-10-18 15:25)
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Author: beejay
Date: 2004-10-18 23:55
I strongly recommend a British software program called Wave Corrector, which is downloadable from the Internet, and costs about 30 pounds sterling.
I had several hundred Russian LPs that I bought in Moscow in the bad old Soviet days, which were wonderful recordings but fundamentally unplayable because of lousy manufacturing quality. I've managed to clean them up, and they now play beautifully on CD, as do ancient mono recordings I bought more than 40 years ago.
Wave corrector turns the computer screen into an oscilloscope, so that you can take out bad scratches visually. Minor imperfections are taken out automatically by the program at whatever level of intervention you set.
The result is a CD that actually sounds like an LP, with all of the warmth and few of the imperfections. I have tried other more automated programs, and was not as impressed.
I have also been very disappointed with some of the CD reissues of my old favorites, such as the Richter versions of the Bach cantatas.
My set-up could not be simper technically. I feed the signal from the amplifier into my computer, using the tape input cables attached to a 3.5 mm stereo plug. I save the recordings as WAV files, correct them and then burn them onto CDs.
I've been told that it is best to make the investment and use decent-quality CD blanks. I have used Memorex blanks without any problems, along with a freeware piece of software called Deep Burner.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-19 01:04
Beejay,
beejay wrote:
> My set-up could not be simper technically. I feed the
> signal from the amplifier into my computer, using the tape
> input cables attached to a 3.5 mm stereo plug. I save the
> recordings as WAV files, correct them and then burn them onto
> CDs.
Just the piece of information I needed. Thanks.
HRL
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