 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-10-15 03:57
An earlier posting about the 20/7 Boehm clarinet (the so called "full Boehm") combined with a tedious game on television (Cardinals currently putting it to the Lastros by two runs), led me to do a little "web" research.
What I found was the following:
LeBlanc, formerly a bastion of the full horn, lists nothing more than the auxiliary Eb lever and the articulated G# on the Pete Fountain model instrument (and the abomination onto God fork Eb on their artist level bass clarinets; won't someone put a stake through this monster before it muffles another passage?)
Selmer, also a practitioner of the full horn in the past, only offers the auxiliary Eb lever. Their rather charming French to English translation grates a bit on the mind, but the whole space is decorated quite tastefully and is very easy on the eyes
On the Yamaha USA website, once you finish penetrating their wacko number convention, you again only see the Eb lever. I did find a path to my new baritone case, however, so all of the time was not wasted
Once you figure out that Buffet/B & H is now part of something called The Music Group, you note that Buffet/B & H also only offer the Eb lever. In fact, the B & H moniker no longer graces a clarinet...sad news indeed for those who don't bother to keep up
Only Amati, out of the deepest, darkest Slovakian heartland, still produces a "full Boehm" horn.
Can this be? Am I going to have to rely on eBay when I replace my horns when they get "played out" (humor intended)?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-15 11:28
Hi Terry,
I have not kept track but I believe that the FB clarinet may be a thing of the past. I have a very nice Selmer Series 9 that has the forked Eb/Bb, articulated G# with alternate sliver key, and the LH Eb lever. No low Eb on this clarinet. Build date was at least 35 years ago though.
While I use the articulated G# and the forked Eb often when playing this clarinet, the left Eb seems to get in the way a lot (and I have found just a very few places where it is required). IMHO, the demand for this type clarinet is low because of the need to relearn certain fingerings that may be pretty well internalized and hard to change. Also, the weight of the extra keys is pretty evident.
As a sax player (and I assume you are one as well), using the extra keys I mention above is fairly easy. But what I'd really want if I could design it would be a BIS key (I have had a couple of techs tell me that to add one is not all that difficult).
My street sense tells me though that the demise of the FB was all about supply and demand. When the time comes for you to replace your FB though, I believe you will find eBay as good a source for lightly used clarinets.
Isn't the Leblanc Pete Fountain (Big Easy) still configured like my FB (without the low E)? This instrument might be your best choice if you do not mind a big bore instrument.
HRL
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-10-15 13:49
The "Pete Fountain" model has the articulated G# and side Eb lever, but is missing the fork Bb/Eb. When I was young and foolish, I pretty much ignored this one, but as I grow older and more wise, I find it in use more and more.
Pete's model is missing the "low Eb" (which probably should be called a "Bb/Eb", but who really cares); I'd miss the resonance on the middle of the staff B natural, but not the note itself.
I like to think that I'm going to get what I want off of eBay, but my instrumental experience with same has been very mixed. Of course, I'm trying to get things at a bargain price, when there are seldom any true bargains to be had. But, it's a lot like buying the proverbial pig in a poke.
One of these days, I figure, I'm going to win the insurance lottery when someone realizes that one of those funny boxes I'm hauling around might be worth snatching. When that happens, I want to get what I want NOW, not wait for a year or two before the right girl comes along on the eBay promenade.
I do recall that, when I bought my A series 9 horn, I was able to choose from a small assortment with the extra keywork. (They even rebuilt a double case for me to accommodate the greater length of my Bb horn's lower joint...and id it gratis to boot.) The horns that I selected my A from were not listed in the catalog at the time, so maybe there are some "back numbers" cluttering up the maker's storerooms.
Of course, with Steinway and "The Instrument Group" running about acquiring every manufacturer musical on the planet, I wonder if either will still respond to a custom request from a non-connected individual? I used to have a few contacts at Selmer, but I've lost track of them since the 1980's, so I'd have to start from scratch.
Now I can start grousing about how there's no Traypac case for the baritone player...
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-15 14:20
Terry,
I just looked at a picture on the Leblanc website of the Pete Fountain and it shows a 7 ring clarinet but the text speaks to only 6 rings.
I wonder what's up.
HRL
PS I had a NOS Selmer 10S FB with the Low Bb/Eb that I got at a music store going out of business sale. I sold the clarinet on eBay for about $1100.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-10-15 15:58
Congrats, Hank, well worth it, i.e. to collectors and those who make use of the "extras" . Having 3 20/7 's, one 19/7 [no Eb] and a couple 18/7 's [PF type], no L H Ab/Eb [dern it, the most useful, IMHO], I just have to say something here. My FB's are Selmer, 1920's and 1932 [RI], a Penzel Mueller 1920's [my first good horn]. so I use all of the gadgets. I'd guess that the more modern ones would be available from Sel, Leb and Buff for some time, to sell out any over-runs, prob at high prices. These and other "extra mechanism" {Leb's term] cls are/were advertised as late as the 1980's, possibly later. Even the PF/Big Easy 's may not be selling well perhaps?? Since, for the low Eb, longer tube lengths, likely bore configurations and tonehole layout are needed, beyond the best selling 17/6's, I'd guess the makers still use/used early designs with little or no "modernization". Tho, its possible that length and bore are same/close to their A's, which should sell better with the demise of the 20/7's for transposition use. I've never seen a low Eb called for on written sop parts [have used it on occasion in combo work], tho I have seen many on alto and [in particular] bass parts, but for some bass parts [our band's Cuban Raphsody calls for ext. range notes, I have to count ledger lines !!, UGH. Modern symp. parts [and conductors] freq. call for an E R. The Bb, the Eb's "counterpart" [IF IN TUNE ??] can be very useful. Nuff for now. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-10-15 17:35
Hi Don,
I have a wonderful etude book by J. Muller (21 Etuden Fur Klarinette - printed in Austria in 1946) which makes use of the low Eb in several places. I can only assume that the intent was for these etudes to be performed on the FB clarinet.
The first time you see the low Eb when sigth-reading, it is a little surprising.
HRL
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-10-15 18:32
I have a late-50s/early-60s (I'm guessing) Kohlert-Winnenden, Germany full-Boehm clarinet (with low Eb and all the other gadgets) which plays quite nicely, but has proven to be unnecessary for anything I've done in the last two years playing-wise. A year or two ago someone sent me a new full-Boehm Amati to look over, and it seemed remarkably similar in design to my Kohlert, which is probably not surprising as one of the instrument factories Amati absorbed was the (at that point abandoned) Kohlert factory, during Amati's formation as a state-owned company during the Soviet era (at least that's the history I've read). So, to get to the point, the Amati might not be such a bad thing if a full-Boehm is needed. Another, probably wildly-expensive alternative, might be to get a full-Boehm (or possibly full-Reform Boehm or even "full-German system") clarinet from one of the German makers such as Herbert Wurlitzer, Arthur Uebel, etc. ---- just be prepared to take out a second mortgage on your house first!
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2004-10-15 19:44
Well, my experiences with Kohlert bass clarinets during the days of my youth were anything but enjoyable. Sure, they were school horns, and sure, I got one reserved for me and had it "fixed up". But, the register mechanism was anything but consistent (too much lost motion from years of wear, perhaps?) and the overall quality of the horn wasn't up to "French" standards.
The "full Oehler" horn that I got last spring (Amati, top end model with about 85% of the full Oehler treatment) works well enough, and in sharp keys the horn is fun to play (as are the Albert horns I use and have used in the past). Sure, the finger spacing is a bit on the funky side, and I'll never get used to the almost vertical alignment of the touchpiece for the LH "long" C# key on the Oehler horn. But, I felt the same way when I first converted to the Boehm soprano from my Albert bass...it's something you get used to.
However, when playing in the "flat" keys, the Oehler system seems "backwards" to one used to both clarinets derived from clarinets derived from the "simple" system (i.e., my Albert and Oehler horns) and from the "Boehm" system (my full and almost full Boehm Selmer Series 9 horns). I guess I could hop between one and the other as the key signature varied...
Way back "in the day" when I was doing three or four musicals a season plus the municipal theater stuff in the summer, I used to prefer playing my reed book on my Albert system soprano and bass clarinet, since it helped with the sharposity of it all. Got a few weird looks and comments now and then ("Where did you get THOSE things?"), but the tone and execution was just fine, so you couldn't fault me on those grounds.
But, for overall felicity and intonation within a horn itself, I still prefer the Boehm system with those three oh-so-useful additions: LH Eb, fork Bb, and articulated G#.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-10-16 02:37
I wish I had advice about what to do when your horn gets "blown out" but I'm already playing on a 35-year-old Buffet R13. My FB horn (Selmer Series 9) is from 1975 and is currently unplayable due to a few keys not having springs which do their job...
I know that most of the "wedding music" clarinetists in Bulgaria prefer the Selmer FB horns. Ivo Papazov, the most famous one, plays on a Selmer Series 10 or maybe it's a Series 10 II...it's been a year since my lesson with him, and I've forgotten his particular model number...
And these Bulgarian guys DO use the extra keys...particularly the low Eb key...but as a Bb
Katrina
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Author: Haegar
Date: 2004-10-16 13:14
>Author: Hank Lehrer (---.buckeye-express.com)
>Date: 2004-10-15 17:35
>I have a wonderful etude book by J. Muller (21 Etuden Fur Klarinette -
>printed in Austria in 1946) which makes use of the low Eb in several places.
>I can only assume that the intent was for these etudes to be performed on >the FB clarinet.
I think these book from austria was intended to be used with "Austrian"-Clarinets (Wiener-Modell) - a special variant of a german-clarinet - but I'm not sure if these austrian-clarinets have a low Eb extension
Post Edited (2004-10-16 13:22)
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