 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: cavefish
Date: 2004-09-18 21:59
i realize one is a pro , but what is the differrance in detail -key placement, design, intination SOUND etc. thanks
Post Edited (2004-09-18 22:17)
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Author: cavefish
Date: 2004-09-18 22:09
i wood like to hear it from clarinet players perspectives too thanks
Post Edited (2004-09-18 22:10)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-09-19 14:17
The E11 is a nice horn if you can't afford an R13.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2004-09-19 16:04
sound quality, key work quality, manufacturing tolerances, etc. get better as you move up the line. my r13's seem heavier than my e11's , but i havent actually weighed them. e.g the wood seems denser on the r13's.
intonation, sound, etc. are very good on e11's. sound quality is a bit better on e12's, better still on r13's. there is a clear sound difference on my r13's over my e11s. key action is more precise on the r13s. i have a student with an older (1985) E12, it sounds and feels very similar to newer r13s.
i start students (age 11) on E11's (($600) or E12's ($999) if they can afford it. they get excellent results on the e11's, good intonation, good sound.
When they get to high school, I move them up to R13's if they can afford it, and have them keep the E11 for marching, or sell the e11 and get a plastic horn for marching.
e11 keys seem softer, more prone to getting bent. but thats just observation again, not a scientific measurement of the metal strength. i see more pad failures, cork falling off, etc. on the e11's, but that might be a function of the younger kids not taking care of the horns as well. my personal horns, the e11's require more maintenance than the r13's fwiw.
e11 tone holes i think are plastic inserts into the wood ; r13's all wood.
bob's post said it all - if you cant afford an r13, an e11 is excellent. for my money, spend the extra $400 and get an E12, they sound a bit better and seem to be a bit better constructed.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-09-19 18:23
Expert technician can further improve sound and intonation on E11 and make it sound closer to R-13 but that's about it. The rest, wood, finish, craftsmanship, key alloy and design, are no higher than found on student entry level clarinets. In other words you get what you pay for.
Professional level clarinets are built in France by master builders. E11 and E12 are made in Germany.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2004-09-19 20:11)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2004-09-19 19:36
dunno on the plastic insert question; i've only seen an older e12, havent tried a new one. the older e12 my student has is solid wood.
if considering a horn for an adult, or advanced student, go right for the r13. students, youngish ones, i put on e11's until they demonstrate they'll stick with it ; and also demonstrate that they're not so clumsy that they drop the horn, bang it against chairs and stands, open the case upside down, neglect to swab it, etc.
like vytas said, you get what you pay for in terms of quality
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-09-27 21:34
Vytas, my daughter and I looked at a Buffet International U6 model. The salesman at our local store said it was better than an E11. Daughter loved the sound, and enjoyed playing it.
Is this the same as an E12, but made for retail stores?
I understand from various sales websites that the Buffet International is the least expensive clarinet with the polycylinder bore, and yet the E12s are advertised some places as having this also.
Daughter is in middle school, and has a fantastic private teacher who thinks she is doing well and has potential. This teacher doesn't accept every student.
Daughter has a few years of elementary and middle school (private school) band behind her. She has outgrown this resonite horn. She doesn't march, but may do so in high school, so I figured I'd do as advised and pick up a resonite at a private sale for marching. It's humid here in the coastal south, so the grenadilla wood would be fine, and daughter cares for her horn very welll.
Thanks.
Sandy
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-09-28 00:52
The "International" is C13. It's similar to E11/E12 with more hand finishing. Made in Germany.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-09-28 08:46
When I saw that on The Music Group site, my jaw dropped! I don't understand why you'd buy a wooden clarinet with a resin bell (E10), nor do I understand how it can sound and play exactly like the all-wood E11.
Regarding the C12, I don't understand the "conservatory" model description. Ok, so it's got some nicer hand-finishing. Is that why it's for students "envisaging a professional career" and "who have outgrown their first instrument"? That could be true of all the E models, too.
I do "get" the point made on TMG site about the high-bore on C12/E13 and less playing resistance.
Thanks for your help, all.
I now have plenty of questions for the local sales person! Including whether it's worthwhile to get the Eb key. ; )
At least I'll be able to know where to start now.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-28 12:44
Odds are that your local sales person won't know much of a dilly about the Clarinet.
Ask this forum about the Eb key and get answers from those who actually know the Clarinet. Your local sales person will just be trying to get the all important sale.
If he has 1 Eb key in stock than that's what you will absolutely need. If he doesn't than he will pan em.
I have a Buffet R-13 Prestige set and never ever, ever use the alternate Eb key - I never need it!
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2004-09-28 15:38
Sandy,
Buffet C12 is entry level professional clarinet that is made in France. "C12" stands in between R13 and E13 so I wouldn't compare it with 'German' student level models like E11, E12, and C13 "International" etc.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-09-28 20:38
Thanks, David. I haven't seen a lot of support for that key so far, but I haven't read too many of these threads.
After about four months of posts, my brain gets a bit mushy. The unfamiliar jargon, I guess.
As I said, I'm not a clarinet player. But I want to find something of value for my daughter. She really enjoys playing.
Sandy
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Author: Kathrynsmom
Date: 2004-09-28 20:49
Ahh, I see. The C12 and C13 are not that closely related, and are not "in order" with each other as the E11 and E12 are! Thanks for clearing it up.
I don't see the value in spending more for the International, then. Unless it is truly easier to play than the E12, or sounds bettter.
Am I mistaken to think that among the E12, since they are German-made, one ordered may be as good as one from the retail store?
The price difference is significant. I can pay $1400 for a new International, or about half that for one of the Es. My local store wants nearly $700 for a resonite Clarinet!!! In fact, they suggested I pick up a reso at a yard sale, LOL, and buy the wood one from them.
I'd rather put the difference in savings for a professional model when Kathryn is ready. : )
Do you have any information that may influence my decision? Please, tell.
Sandy
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