 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: katchow
Date: 2004-09-27 18:17
i don't know how many jazz players there are in here (seems like a lotta classical folks), but i'm at a point where i'm considering upgrading my beginner horn. i'm flexible on the price but (w/ my income) i can't justify buying a clarinet for much more than $1200. i'm hoping this isn't just an intermediate price range because i don't think i'd ever be able to spend much more than that. Plus i thought about trying out a soprano sax down the road...
sorry if this has been discussed to death
kevin
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-09-27 18:41
I've tried almost every kind of clarinet on the market in the 45 years I've played clarinet and have decided a good Buffet R-13 can do about anything. I've used different mouthpieces for jazz and klezmer--however. Sometimes I use one with a bit larger opening for klez.
You can find a good R-13 for your price range.
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Author: katchow
Date: 2004-09-27 18:56
wow, the r-13 by all accounts i've heard is a "dream" horn...i had no idea that i could find one in that price range...thats good news.
Post Edited (2004-09-27 18:58)
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Author: katchow
Date: 2004-09-27 19:11
well a quick look didn't turn up anything under $2000...i suppose i'll need to spend some quality time looking at some used ones...you didn't happen to price them 45 years ago? just teasin'
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-09-27 19:18
$1,200 is definitely used territory for R-13s. Older Selmers (Series 9 for instance) make good jazz horns as well. Something special about the sound.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-09-27 19:20
Your price range would fit the E-11. It's no R-13 but I have tried a number of them for students and really liked them. Nice tone and free-blowing. I'm involved playing jazz and western swing, and think this model would treat you very well.
Allen Cole
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-09-27 19:24
A lot of us band/Jazz players will swear [totally without proof !] that the ONLY true jazz clars are the large 15 mm bore horns, early Conns, 50's+ Selmers and LeBlancs [dont know about Yammies] !!! Myself, I've played jazz, German Band, and comm band [marches] on mainly Sel CTs and LeBs, Dyn 2 and H, [Pete F's are too expensive for me !] with various cls and really cant tell significant differences. I suspect the more-major factor is a moderately wide open lay mp, capable of pitch "bending" , "big sound" and ease of playing altissimo, to be heard above the herd [apologies to Woody H. Try, then buy what you like. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-09-27 19:34
Re-reading, I forgot about the E11 that Doreen plays in Jackson Square NO, sure sounds great and over quite a lot of others. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: katchow
Date: 2004-09-27 19:36
thanks everyone...i did look at pete fountain's model and yikes, don't think i'll be dropping that much dough...also, I hope it has different key options cuz' that gold is seriously tacky (imo). Hmmm...if Donald Trump were to have a signature clarinet...
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-09-27 19:58
I do own a semi-vast assortment of Clarinets. I do not own a Buffet Clarinet. My favorite Clarinet for jazz used to be a Leblanc, but nowadays I play mostly on a Vito V-40. It works very well for me, and used V-40s can be found so low-priced they are almost free.
If I were a more financially serious player, never picking up the Clarinet unless there are $$$ headed my way, I might select a different (more costly) Clarinet for playing jazz (yes, I can afford one). As things are right now, V-40s work just fine for me.
I shall always be grateful to Brenda for aiming me in their direction.
Of course, many players will think this all sounds nuts, which is what keeps the economy going.
Regards,
John
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-09-27 20:19
I like my Leblanc LL for jazz - and for everything else too, actually! It just seems to play so easily.........
Joanna Brown
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-09-27 20:40
I agree with Joanna. I love my Leblanc LL for jazz as well. It cost me about $500 (got it for $300 on e-Bay, plus $200 for a complete overhaul). I believe it has a 14.82 mm bore.
Henry
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-09-27 21:14
Katchow [great name !] - My LeBlanc Dynamic 2, about a 1955's cl, has the 2 extra "keys" [one is the 7 th ring, for the "fork" Eb/Bb, the other the Articulated C#/G# mechanism, some like it, others dont] , making it an 18/7 [keys/rings] horn, which most [all?] of the P Fs have, and their "large" 15.0 mm bore, so its my poor-mans P F. It and the similar Dyn. H show up occasionally on Ebay [and elsewhere], for a "song", perhaps a good buy, if in decent shape !! As in Mich, Circumspice [look about you]. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-27 22:53
for me, the only thing that separetes my jazz playing and classical is my style and embechoure. I play an r-13 vintage, but i doubt that even matters. The main factor for me is how i decide i want it to sound.
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-09-28 00:40
I don't think there is such a thing as a ''jazz'' clarinet. It ain't what yer have, it how yer play it, that counts.
More seriously though - get a mouthpiece and a reed which gives you the ''sound'' you want and there you are - not great deal else is required in my opinion.
I have a number of horns and I can get ''my'' required sound generally by changing the reed only - to suit the instrument - I hardly ever switch m/p (Vandoren 5JB incidentally).
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-09-28 01:00
Just for the record (no pun intended):
Artie Shaw played at least 3 different model clarinets in his career (Buffet, Selmer, Conn), a variety of mouthpieces and even made recordings using plastic reeds.
I defy you to try and distinguish when any of the above were used ...GBK
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-09-28 02:43
Yes, I was thinking in terms of a good USED R-13 when I said in the $1,200.00 range. In fact, you can probably get one on Ebay for that much or even less. A new one is about $2,000.00. But, if you wait until February you may be able to get a new one in the $1,800.00 price range because the dealers don't sell many during that month and they'll offer a discount about that time in order to move merchandise.
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Author: ned
Date: 2004-09-28 04:14
''katchow'' - if you NEED a newer clarinet then go for it, but before you fork out X amount of $$ for it, try mixing and matching your mouthpieces and reeds with the one you have first and experiment with your embouchere too - just trying to save you some money you know.
I really can't see how another instrument is going to make that much difference, GBK's reply seems to strike a chord with me (pun intended).
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2004-09-28 12:17
I agree with John Kelly's message. I suspect that jazz clarinetists use as a wide variety of instruments as do jazz saxophonists. Different models of clarinets have their special tonal qualities. However, it's my opinion that the biggest single factor in one's sound -- other than the player (biggest factor by far!) -- comes from the mouthpiece and reed combination rather than a particular instrument. Having said that, having a good quality instrument can make a big difference in one's playing. Otherwise, why would we invest thousands of dollars in a horn?
I'm a big fan of Ralph Morgan's clarinet mouthpieces. I've found them to be excellent for both classical and jazz playing. My mouthpiece of choice is the RM10 (1.10 mm). However, I'd recommend the RM15 (1.15 mm) as a good place start for a general-use mouthpiece. If you find that you need a more open jazz model the Morgan J6 (1.35 mm) or J7 (1.45 mm) are also good. Normally, I use the RM10 for all of my playing -- including a big band. However, I keep a J6 in my case for those times when the brass section is feeling its oats and I need a greater amount of brute force power on clarinet.
There are many other mouthpieces on the market that could work well for you. One of my doubling buddies is getting very good results with the new Eddie Danniels mouthpiece. So, I'd suggest that you try a selection of mouthpieces and hopefully find one that matches your tonal conception. It's possible that a better quality mouthpiece could make a remarkable difference with your current clarinet. Good luck to you!
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Author: katchow
Date: 2004-09-28 13:42
thanks everybody...i've certainly got a lot to consider. the reason i'm considering a new horn is because the one i currently have is a bit sloppy. I've taken it in for tweaks on the keys but a few still have more 'slack' in them than i like. Plus the intonation is dreadful...my teacher agrees.
So, i figure if i'm gonna go for a new one, i'd like to get one i won't outgrow any time soon. I know i could probably achieve the sound i want by swapping mouthpieces on just about any horn i choose...and the more i think about it, i guess i wouldn't want to completely limit myself to jazz anyway.
the $1200 price range is less about what i can afford and more about what i feel i can comfortably justify spending...afterall, i don't plan on making any money at playing.
one other tidbit, i bought a Fobes mouthpiece awhile ago and it made a world of difference...
well, i'm off to research all these horns you mentioned...thanks again!
--buying a horn off ebay gives me chills...don't know if i'm quite that brave.
---has anyone here ever tried a plastic reed? do they still make them?
---don, that alternate keys sounds very interesting. do a lot of intermediate to pro clarinet have modified keywork? anyone really like the additions?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-09-28 14:45
Hi K C - There have been many discussions of the additions to our "standard" 17/6 keys/rings cls, search here under Full Boehm [system] also read Brymer's, Rendall's, Lawson's etc comments on their desireability and some problems they generate. My first good cl was an F B, and I have several now, also several "partials" and have some prejudices . In general they ease some fingering problems, as encountered in playing in [musical] keys of many b's and #'s [without having to change to cl's in A, C etc]. These, IMHO, are encountered more often in symphonic than in jazz/concert band playing. The "extras" are usually available ?only? on the top-of-line cls, and are often standard on the best bass cls. The "Basset" cl and horn and "extended range" bass [etc] cls are examples of keying beyond the F B inst. and cost much more !! Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: sbbishop
Date: 2004-09-28 17:43
Katchow,
re: plastic reed
Do some research on 'legere' reeds.
I use them and really like them. I don't have to spend a lot time messing about with wooden reeds as a result.
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Author: MikeH
Date: 2004-09-28 17:44
I have a Selmer Centered Tone and strongly recommend it for jazz playing. They are offered on ebay from time to time. I have seen them go for prices that are astoundingly low for a clarinet of this quality.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2004-09-28 23:54
another vote for the leblanc LL -great jazz horn -mpc?try a runyon custon jazz model. yes the r13 can play jazz .at least when eddie daniels plays one
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-09-29 02:26
The Selmer Centered Tone really is a great playing clarinet . . . . and you're right - it can be bought really cheap for a pro clarinet. If you figure $350-500 for a CT, plus $250-300 for a great overhaul, you'd have lots of money left over. Buy a Morgan RM-15 and you'd be set to gig.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-09-29 03:22
I now play usually with a Fibracell "medium soft" piece of plastic on my Woodwind hard rubber G7* mouthpiece. I also have a Woodwind "Educator" G7* MP. It is plastic, supposedly equivalent to the rubber one, but they are quite different. Y'know, injection molded plastic mouthpieces just aren't that uniform.
I have tried Legere plastics but have not liked one yet. YMMV. Larry Combs likes them. I am not Larry Combs. Maybe you are.
Regards,
John
who really likes to play Jazz on a Clarinet that cost him fifty bux (through eBay). The mouthpiece, inverted Bonade ligature, and reed-shaped plastic cost much more than that.
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Author: katchow
Date: 2004-09-29 12:26
i guess a lot of people do buy through ebay...i'll have to take a gander when i get home.
i would be nice to not drop too much into a clarinet, especially if i feel like doubling on something else down the road.
tremendous help, thnx everyone.
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2004-09-30 20:02
Sometimes, you can get lucky on ebay and get a great deal. I did. I wanted to upgrade to a professional clarinet like you, but I had no particular model in mind.
One night I saw a Leblanc LX on ebay, brand new, in-the-box, and the reserve not yet met. I bid a $1000 for this 'artist' grade horn, and hoped. No one bid over the reserve price, and the LX was mine for $800.
The Leblanc has turned out to be my dream horn. I play jazz with friends, and in the Middletown Symphonic Band.
Mike B.
Connecticut
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-09-30 20:15
I used to buy and sell on eBay all the time and have had a mostly positive experience with hundreds of instruments and clarinet mouthpieces. There are some respectable sellers out there--but you need to be careful. Again, that has been a topic of discussion here on the bboard for a long time.
However, here are a couple of pointers:
1. Make certain the person selling the instrument is actually knowledgeable about clarinets. You find that out by sending emails or calling the seller. If he/she doesn't respond to your email--do not bid no matter how good the price or deal looks to you. A reputable seller will reply to your questions.
2. Check out their feedback. They should have a very high (98.9 or higher) feedback rating. If they have negative feedback, proceed with caution but look up their feedback responses and scroll until you find the negatives and see why they got the rating. Sometimes it is not the seller's fault and there is a reasonable explanation.
3. Shop around and see if the instrument is priced about right. You can search eBay and also on classifieds, etc. Unless you're buying a new instrument there are great variables involved in the purchase price.
4. Make certain the seller (eBay, that is) has a good refund policy and will allow you a few days to play the instrument and return it if you're not happy with it.
There are other pointers about eBay, but if you do a search here on the board you'll find more comments.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2004-10-03 02:32
Well, I like some of the old metal clarinets and you can get an old pro model for $300 (but they cost more to restore).
You wrote:
"... still have more 'slack' in them than i like. Plus the intonation is dreadful."
I think that you are worried that a used pro horn will have the same problem. Unless it was beat to death, probably not. One reason the pro horns are better is because they are made with much better quality keywork.
A truely skilled craftsman can use a set of undercutting tools to adjust the intonation of a plastic clarinet. This is seldom done cheap horns. I suspect that it doesn't wear off. Thus, a pro instrument that once played in tune likely can be made to play in tune again without heroic effort.
Anyway, if you got a vintage horn that played well, likely it would play well for longer than any intermediate quality instrument you bought new.
All this said, there are a lot of techs on this list who are a lot better qualified to make these sorts of assertions, so if GBK (to name one) contradicts me, believe him.
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2004-10-03 21:58
I have 17 clarinets, most of them from Ebay. My luck has generally been good. One guy sent me a "Selmer", which was actually a clunker with a Selmer barrel. He gracefully refunded my money. Another guy sent me an empty box and claimed it was an accident. (I had paid by credit card, so maybe it was.) Check feedback and see if you can tell whether the seller is a musician (references to "the reed holder", etc). Also, put a cap on what you're willing to pay. I got a Selmer Brevet (FB), a CT, a BT and an R13, all for very good prices.
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Author: katchow
Date: 2004-10-05 13:38
Jim wrote:
"I think that you are worried that a used pro horn will have the same problem."
thats true. not having experience with a lot of horns i always thought having a new one would be assurance that all the keys are working properly. Though, from things i've heard on the board, i understand that thats not always the case.
i've been drooling on ebay looking at clarinets the last couple of days...there does seem to be some knowledgeable sellers out there. Since i'm not in any big rush, ive got plenty of time to weigh my options.
does anyone know, should i buy the bright red clarinet? It shore is perty', just kiddin
thanks again
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