 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tomz
Date: 2004-09-17 22:40
I am an adult novice, long past school age, with about six months experience. I have come to the realization that my progress will be slowed or even stopped by lack of instruction.
My difficulty is that I have no idea how to find an instructor. I love the clarinet and this bulletin board. I welcome your advice!
P.S. I live in Santa Ana, CA.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-17 22:52
Ask at local universities, like UCI, CSUF, and especially CSULB (i'm just a tad biased, but am not up to giving lessons). Call up or visit the music department, tell them your situation, and ask if they can refer you to someone. You'd likely get a student, a graduate, or someone else they know and trust. City colleges would likely also get you a decent referral.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: supernova_khr
Date: 2004-09-18 08:54
Call your local music stores. Also, you can try contacting your local school's music teacher. School districts often have lists of instructors to hand out to their instrumental students.
I found my son's sax teacher by talking to a professor at the university located in our town. He recommended a music education major who has proven to be a great teacher.
I found my son's clarinet teacher via referral from his middle school band director. He actually rents a classroom from a local music store, as do a lot of the teachers in our area. Renting out rooms for lessons is one of the ways the music stores stay afloat. Anyway, the music store route is a good way to find a teacher. And, there's always the classified ads in your local paper. I found my daughter's piano teacher that way, and have subsequently recommended her to several other people who've been quite happy with her as a teacher.
Good luck,
KayR
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-09-18 12:12
KayR,
You get my nomination as Supermom of the Month!
HRL
PS Your advice to Tom is exactly on target.
Post Edited (2004-09-18 12:13)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-18 12:50
Go to the schools and ask - don't go to a music store unless you are told by a band director that the individual giving the lessons is very good.
Music stores are where the hack teachers "teach". Some are good, hardly any are ever great, but the hacks dominate.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-09-18 14:10
David,
Your comment "Music stores are where the hack teachers "teach". Some are good, hardly any are ever great, but the hacks dominate" seems to be an over-generalization.
Having taught many years in several music stores and also sharing the woodwind teaching duties with several others, I am happy to say that none of us were hacks. All had degrees in music (several with advanced degrees), many years of HS and/or college teaching experience, were well above average performers, and consistently turned out top solo as well as ensemble players.
IMHO I think you have offered a somewhat biased opinion.
HRL
Post Edited (2004-09-18 22:00)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-09-18 14:24
David,
In the first few years of my career, before having the established studio I have today, I taught low income students at a local music store.
These parents, who could barely scrape together the cost of a weekly lesson (and we had no problem overlooking the fact that they were often a few $$ short) , were totally dedicated to having their children advance on their instruments.
They were some of the most rewarding and satisfying music lessons I ever gave in my life.
It's not always about how much you can charge and how much you can make ...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-18 15:46
It isn't about how much you charge and how much you can make at all. It's about having dedicated students. The ones who can barely afford it would be more dedicated because if they can't afford it yet are still doing it - the activity must have a huge importance in their priorities.
Those often are the best students to have!
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-09-18 19:52
I studied with Don Ambler in the studios of Rockley Music in Colorado, as did many other clarinetists now seated in symphony orchestras. He is as far from a hack as there is. There are bad teachers everywhere, including at the university level, and more than a few symphonic players who couldn't teach their way out of a paper bag. There are also spectacular teachers in the most unlikely of places.
My suggestion for finding a teacher would be of course first to ask around as recommended since word of mouth means a lot, but more than anything else, take a few sample lessons with likely candidates. Make sure the teacher plays so you get a sense of him/her as a musician, and see whether there is a fit in terms of style, personality, etc. Don't be afraid to ask for credentials in the form of what achievements students have made (all state orchestra, youth orchestra, university admissions, professional posts). There is no greater measure of a teacher than the achievements of the students.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-09-18 20:43
I teach in music stores and an NOT a 'hack' teacher. My students compete quite well with those studying with local college professors and orchestra members--and most of them have far superior theory and ear training.
In fact, I get better results from students in the music store atmosphere than I do when I visit them at their schools. Not only is this true of students in general, but also of a number of individual students who have studied in both environments.
While we're following David's logic, why don't we similarly caution the folks out here to avoid people who teach in their homes? Gee, those folks must be hiding from ALL oversight! <g>
Allen Cole
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-09-18 20:49
As far as music stores, would you consider the teachers at Mark's Music in PA to be hacks??? That's where I studied as a kid, and lots of good teachers were/are there.
Right now I happen to teach at a music store because when I began teaching, I lived in an apartment building which had no doorbell or buzzer/intercom system. I wasn't about to have a 10-year-old wait outside for their lesson up here in Minnesota in January...
Now that I have a house, I am beginning to teach here. It'll take me a while to get as strong a studio here as I have at the store, but I'm up for the challenge.
FWIW, there _are_ some hack teachers at the store where I teach. I am NOT one of them, IMHO...LOL
Katrina
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-09-18 22:03
GBK, Mark, or Katrina,
Evidently Mr. Blumberg does not want to defend this statement after hearing from some individuals who do teach or have taught in music stores or have taken lessons there.
HRL
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-18 23:08
I think he just wanted to point out that there is a WIDE range of teachers at music stores, and it usually in the music stores' best immediate interest to promote their own teachers.
One music store near my house seems intentionally apathetic, if not hostile toward wind players (and just about anyone non-guitar/drums/keyboard for that matter), though they sell basic supplies and instruments across the board (if you're lucky, the person who knows a clarinet from an oboe will be on duty that day). For repairs, your instrument is shipped out for weeks, if not months, at a time.
While I don't know who gives lessons there, I have a hunch that excellent wind teachers don't exactly apply in droves. To many people, this is the only music store they know (and a few others in my area aren't too much better, though there are also some very reputable & knowledgeable ones that are a bit harder to find). For years I was recommended to go there for supplies, and though I wasn't taking private lessons yet I might have checked there if I was so inclined.
I'd say it's important to not just refer people "to their local music store", in which case it's a bit of a crapshoot whether you're paired with a hack or a fantastic teacher. Rather, asking around at different sources, or going to shops where you greatly trust their wind expertise, is a wiser course of action.
To a great many people, a music lesson is a music lesson, and they'll go to the first place they see.
I don't doubt that the "hack" clarinet teachers know their instrument reasonably well, and I don't doubt that they mean well, and believe they are giving valuable lessons. However, with the number of times throughout my clarinet years that I "knew all there is to know about the clarinet and am not first chair solely because the first chair player can play faster staccato", I'd be wary.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-19 00:45
Uh, Evidently Mr. Blumberg was away all day today...........
Yes, of course there are some good, great, etc teachers at music stores, but they are often the MINORITY.
Same for the teachers who come to the students home (or they are very young).
There always are exceptions.
Post Edited (2004-09-19 00:45)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-19 00:56
Bottom line is that your local band director will know the hacks from the experts.
Because according to almost all music stores all they ever hire are "experts".....
And by the way: If you are on this board chances are that you aren't a hack anyway! Most hacks wouldn't care enough to be here discussing the Clarinet. So of course that remark isn't made personally to anyone here whatsoever. BUT the music stores are the ones who have the $$$ to put yellow page ads and ofter are who folks call for lessons by default without asking (the more informed) the band director who is good in the area.
Cause no music store anywhere will say to somebody over the phone "yeah, our clarinet teacher sucks, but he's all we got!"
Post Edited (2004-09-19 01:12)
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-09-19 01:37
Not to denigrate band directors as a group, but I don't think you can say they all "know the hacks from the experts" any more than the music store owners. I had a student come to me for lessons in absolutely disastrous condition because his band director (a percussionist thankyou very much) had given him such incompetent instruction it took me 6 months to undo the damage. This guy doesn't know a clarinet from a tympani mallet, and doesn't know a good clarinetist from his plumber. On the complete other hand, we have a HS band director here who is a very accomplished clarinetist himself and makes good referrals as well as providing good instruction himself. It really is important to get a diversity of opinions unless you know for a fact that the one person with whom you are consulting is truly an expert.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-09-19 02:16
Mr. Blumberg,
I beg your pardon but you posted a message one and a half hours after I commented "IMHO I think you have offered a somewhat biased opinion" and chose not to comment on mine or GBK's postings.
I guess no one reads my messages :-).
HRL
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-09-19 02:21
And I just wanted to say that indeed there are hacks at music stores. I can name 2 from the one where I teach. However, there are 2 great flute teachers, a wonderful low brass guy, one of the best piano instructors (and players), and even a fabulous guitar guy.
The two are in the minority, IMHO at the store where I teach. Unfortunately the store management finds them to be wonderful because "they can teach ANY instrument!!!" Nuff said...
Katrina
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Author: claaaaaarinet!!!!
Date: 2004-09-19 02:51
Another thing worth pointing out is that it doesn't necessarily take a seasoned professional clarinetist to teach beginners. What IS required is someone with patience and a gift for teaching and motivating. My first clarinet teacher, a tuba player/band director with whom I studied for four years, was a "hack" when it came to playing the clarinet, but he was a FANTASTIC teacher. He was encouraging and enthusiatic and knew more than enough about the clarinet to keep me going for the first few years. Of course, he also knew enough about music to recommend me to a professional clarinetist when I outgrew his clarinet teaching abilities.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-09-19 03:09
Clarinet,
You are a fortunate student to have such a FANTASTIC teacher (even if he was a tuba player :-)). His insightfulness in moving you on to the professional clarinetist is exactly how it is supposed to work.
HRL
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-09-19 07:15
I'm not so sure that band directors are particularly less self-interested than the music stores. (another reason why I prefer to bring my students into the stores)
Ask one of our local band directors who should teach you privately, and her answer will be...well...HER! On ANY instrument. After all, didn't she take a semester each of woodwinds, brass, percussion and strings?
I see a number of band directors picking up extra $$$ teaching privately on instruments that they don't actively play, and have never themselves had private lessons on.
At the risk of beating a dead horse, David's bottom line still doesn't stand. Generalities are important on BB's like this, because--like many students--people only take away snippets of what's discussed. Sweeping generalities like the one we're responding to hurt not only those who come here for info, but a lot of other folks are are unfairly denigrated in the process.
Allen Cole
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-19 10:13
I didn't say that the band directors are the good teachers. I said that the band directors will know who gets the good results with their students. So asking the band director who is a good Clarinet Instructor is a good choice as they have heard the results of probably all of them. Over time a band director will form an opinion of them based on how their students progress. If a teacher can consistently turn around students (from bad players to good ones) then the band director will notice that.
So my "bottom line" does stand - ask the band director for advice on whom to study with (not with them!). Odds are that the director won't say "hey, I've got some spots!!! study here with ME" - unlike a music store owner.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-19 10:41
And Hank, I read your posting but didn't need to defend my position. It stands on its own merits - you can believe it or not.
There are always exceptions
John Coulehan (Navy Band Soloist) taught at Dales Music in Silver Spring, MD.
Al Ascercion (Naval Academy Soloist) taught at a music store in Va Beach after retiring.
Don Ambler was a great teacher - my college roommate Jeff Strouf (now soloist in the Marine Band) studied with him and Jeff's dad Ralph Strouf was a founding member of the Intl. Clarinet Assc!
To study with any of those was a bargain at the music stores.
And some music store students of course make All State Band. But the best teachers usually are successfull enough to afford their own home studio space so as not to have a trumpet player blasting in their ear while teaching, or a level 1 piano player banging away while trying to teach "tone production" to a student. At 19-20 yrs old I taught at a big music store in the area. I saw the other teachers, their students and what they produced - or didn't produce. And back then I would have been considered (now by myself) to have been one of those "hacks" as I didn't know what I was doing yet (compared to now - it was from lack of experience).
The general public probably thinks that most music store teachers are all good. That just isn't the case. In any music store anywhere there will probably be 1 teacher who is really good. Could be on any instrument (saying that the 1 great teacher may be a Guitarist, etc) but not every teacher there will be very good and some most likely will be BAD. But the store owner you talk to won't be telling you that info. You won't be told that the Clarinet teacher just picked up the sax for the first time and since you are just starting you won't pick up the fact that he is only 3 pages ahead of you in the book. You won't get told that the piano teacher took a semester of piano in college but is really a trumpet major (the regular piano teacher being full).
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Author: sbbishop
Date: 2004-09-20 17:55
David, David, David
Your use of the term 'hack'
Results in people quite livid
Perhaps it is time to back
yourself into a belief more vivid
My first attempt and probably last, to obtain title of poet hack![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Post Edited (2004-09-20 19:38)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-20 18:28
:)
Yes, but I meant it. And wasn't calling anyone here a hack as I wrote earlier. But in my 22 years of teaching I've seen many students of them.
Keeps me busy in fact so I should be grateful........
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-09-20 18:53
David,
Re: "Yes, of course there are some good, great, etc teachers at music stores, but they are often the MINORITY."
I was wondering when you plan to publish the results of the research that supports this statement?
Hans
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-09-20 19:24
Let's not forget that there are often extenuating circumstances which might cause a clarinet teacher to teach through a music store.
When a teacher's current place of residence is not conducive to private lessons (perhaps due to a recent divorce, a small apartment, living in a condominium, etc..) a music store may be the best available option.
I've come across some very fine teachers who had no choice due to the above factors...GBK
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-09-20 20:06
GBK...
You're right on! Now that I have a house, though, it will take me a while to build the studio here. Mostly due to the 1-year "non-compete" clause in my contract at the music store.
I am only accepting new students at home, and am ending up moving two brothers to my home 'cause they can't make it at either of my days at the store...
Katrina
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