 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-09-18 00:16
Alaska All-State for all Bb Clarinets is taken out of Rubank's Advanced Method for Clarinet (vol 1), so I bought the book today. Frankly, the music seems much too easy to be considered "Advanced" by any means. Most of it looks like stuff I could sightread perfectly (the first few numbers I tried only convinced me more of this), and technique is by no means my strength (I'm a high school Bass Clarinetist with what I assume to be about average technical skills for my age). Comparing this book with Hite's Melodious and Progressive Studies, Book 1, which Mr. Hite describes as aimed towards any student who's just finished an introductory course, the difference is striking. The music that Mr. Hite is aiming towards the intermediate Clarinetist is quite a bit more difficult than than what the Rubank is aiming towards the advanced Clarinetist.
This is somewhat upsetting in the realm of All-State tryouts, then. Coming from New Mexico, where every Bb-pitched Clarinet (including Bass) played etudes/studies out of Hite/Rose's "Artistic Studies from the French School", it seems as though either (1) the people in charge of choosing All-State music here in Alaska view Bass Clarinetists as the failures of the high school Clarinet world, who could never possibly play something of any difficulty or (2) the Clarinetests of Alaska are just by and large not quite as good players as those you might find further south. The fact that Soprano Clarinetists, too, are playing Alaska All-State out of Rubank would seem to lend support to the latter.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2004-09-18 00:32
You'd be amazed how hard the easy stuff is. Ever played the Klose practical and mechanical studies slowly?
Assuming that really is the audition lit, you'll have to have it polished to better than perfect, or some kid from Nunavut playing a Vito Ice bass clarinet who worked his keister off might just take your seat. There is absolutely nothing to hide behind when the music is seemingly "easy".
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-09-18 01:41
that stuff is advanced for middle schoolers, if that. i believeit is our(alabama) jr. high all state tryout source
just to be sure, isn't that a blue book?
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-09-18 02:03
msloss - Yes, I agree. And perhaps that's the reason I'm slightly annoyed by the music choice for All-State tryouts up here - the simpicity of the tryout music means I have to do everything absolutely perfectly to do well. Unfortunately, even from the Rubank book, some of the easier tunes were chosen for tryout pieces, so just about everyone can play them. The things that separate the instrumentalists, then, are going to be so small, that one little quirk can mean the difference between 1st chair and 3rd alternate, even something like recording quality! As Alaska is a rather large and sparsely populated state, auditions are not live as they were in New Mexico, but taped, which is another thing about tryouts here that I dislike. In New Mexico (and I assume other states as well), the music is difficult enough to separate the talented from the not-so. Any Bass Clarinetest can play quarter notes at 60BPM, or their C scale in 16th notes. Not so many can play the Rose Etudes, automatically weeding out the "untalented, but lucky" group. Oh well, I suppose I'll just work the music to perfection and hope my tape recorder is a good one. Can't do much more than that.
mkybrain - Yep, the blue book. If I recall correctly, our Clarinets in junior high (7-9th grade) used it as a study book, learning 3 pages a week for sectional work and chair tests. So certainly, I believe the book has its uses.
Post Edited (2004-09-18 02:04)
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-09-18 04:47
It has to be harder than the music we have here. I think it's why Mississippi is not well known for music.
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Author: hartt
Date: 2004-09-18 05:36
To Igloo Bob....
" Frankly, the music seems much too easy to be considered "Advanced" by any means."
" Any Bass Clarinetest can play quarter notes at 60BPM, or their C scale in 16th notes."
____________________________________________
REALLY ????
Russianoff, who taught many advanced students and higher, had a simple test for those auditioning for lessons. Hotshots/wizbangers would warm up reeling off cadenzas, concerto runs, etc.
He'd set his metronome at 50 or 60 bpm and have the prospective student play a slurred C major scale. .....qtr note at 50/60.
Many a student was given lessons because he'd say you're right, you need lessons...you can't count. ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
Imagine if they had to play excerpts from Rubank's Advanced Method !!!![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
BTW, 1965,66,67 his lessons were $65 / hr.....and you got what you paid for.
regards
dennis
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-09-18 05:38
Igloo Bob said:
> This is somewhat upsetting in the realm of All-State tryouts
In the bigger over-all picture of future schooling (college and graduate school) day to day performing as a working musician, securing and keeping a full time teaching position, etc...) playing (or not playing) in an All-State band at the age of 16 is relatively meaningless.
I wouldn't lose too much sleep worrying about it...GBK
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-09-18 12:28
GBK,
"In the bigger over-all picture of future schooling (college and graduate school) day to day performing as a working musician, securing and keeping a full time teaching position, etc...) playing (or not playing) in an All-State band at the age of 16 is relatively meaningless."
Truer words were never spoken. I would guess that if one polled a significant number of individuals like you describe above, there would not no significant relationship between their perception of their ability and all-state band membership as a contributing factor.
I remember my first several lesson from Fred Cohen at Kent State in the mid- 1960s. I spent weeks playing at 60 beats to the minute placing my fingers down ever so carefully. Fred was a student of Bonade and I suspect that was a technic learned from the master. I still practice that way as a warmup.
HRL
PS In Ohio in the 1950s, there was no All-State Band. How did that state ever produce any musicians during that time-frame?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-18 12:48
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GBK,
"In the bigger over-all picture of future schooling (college and graduate school) day to day performing as a working musician, securing and keeping a full time teaching position, etc...) playing (or not playing) in an All-State band at the age of 16 is relatively meaningless."
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Completely meaningless - even top players in All State Band's are a dime a dozen.
Pretty scary huh?
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Author: Dee
Date: 2004-09-18 13:39
As other's have said, with the "easy stuff" you can't hide. It's got to be right. The tonal quality of notes will be glaringly evident as to whether they are good or bad (and you had better make SURE that your tape recorder and mike are adequate, start checking them NOW). If the required material comes from the etudes, then be sure that you have mastered its musicality. You'd be surprised how much work this requires on material that you believe you can sight read perfectly.
Dazzling technique cannot be developed until the "easy stuff" is perfect. Many a student has had to go back to the basics that they sluffed off on before they could continue to advance.
As far as whether the Rubank Advanced books are "advanced" is a relative matter. They are advanced as far as being the last in the series of their Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced volumes. Plus if you try some of the "finger twister" exercises, you will find them more difficult than you suspect. Volume I admittedly doesn't get into "flashy" material but there is a great deal to learn as far as musicality goes. Volume II does become much more difficult. If you were to work your way through these volumes using the programmed learning chart at the beginning of each volume, I think you'd be amazed at the improvement in your playing.
In my opinion, the Rubank series should be completed (or nearly completed) before moving into things like the Hite books or the Baermann books.
I would recommend the following sequence for any student so long as they have a teacher to guide them through (the Rubanks are not intended for learning without a teacher). Note that I've skipped the Rubank Intermediate as it doesn't seem beneficial if one has done a proper job of studying the Beginner book.
1. Rubank Beginner book - two years
2. Rubank Advanced Volume I - one year or more
3. Rubank Advanced Volume II - one year or more
4. Cavallini, Baermann, Hite, Rose, etc - As long as it takes
One problem that many students have and some teachers, is rushing through the material. The Rubank beginner book is designed to take two years. This means roughly only 1/2 page per week. If you rush through the basics, they will have to be repeated at some point to allow yourself to advance. However the beginner book is a real bore so it would behoove the teacher to have supplemental material such as simple tunes that the students like.
This idea of testing the basics isn't unique to music. When I was involved in martial arts testing, we required black belt candidates to perform a simple beginner's exercise. If it was inadequate (and a significant percentage were), they were not allowed to continue testing that day. Instead they were instructed to work on these elements and come back to the next test session.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-18 13:44
I personally hate the Rubank series and refuse to use them.
Boring, boring, boring and unmotivating.
I use the Galper Methods to bridge the gap before the Hite Series.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2004-09-18 13:48
The hardest part about playing quarter notes at 60 bpm is playing quarter notes at 60 bpm. All but the most discipline player will be rushing them after a few measures. This is an essential skill for players of the low instruments, far more essential than the "flashy" stuff. It is the low instruments that hold the group together by maintaining a solid and steady beat.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-09-18 14:16
"...playing (or not playing) in an All-State band at the age of 16 is relatively meaningless."
--------------------------------------
DavidBlumberg said:
> Completely meaningless - even top players in
> All State Band's are a dime a dozen.
The reason I used "relatively" and not "completely" is because some of my students who went to All-State band worked with more interesting (read: more competent) conductors than their ones back home.
The trade off was that the music performed was usually pretty putrid ...GBK
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Author: William
Date: 2004-09-18 15:20
Iggy wrote, "The things that separate the instrumentalists, then, are going to be so small, that one little quirk can mean the difference between 1st chair and 3rd alternate".
Well....(ala former Pres Regan), you got that right. And that is the "small" difference between clarinetists like Larry Combs, Stanley Drucker, Charles Niedich, etc, etc, etc, (ad nausium) and most of us. Many of us, on this BB, can all play just as many notes, just as fast with almost the same technical perfection and musical expression, and almost as well in tune.......(however), it is that little word "almost" that really separates the big dogs from the rest of the pack. They real pros simply have the uncanny ability not to make those little quirks as frequently (even if ever) as most of us do.
Consider this. Most candidates for any serious top orchestral audition can play all the notes in the required audition repretoir with acceptable musical expression--first time. Technique and musical abilities are not the issue. The most common criteria that often separate the winning instrumentalist from "runner up" is the ability to play perfectly in time. Simply, rhythum. The Mozart Clarinet Concerto is easy--right?? For most pros, that is. But most of them have to be "real careful" when auditioning to avoid rushing the tempo as well as some of the rhythmic figures. Also, playing the notes is one thing, but the smooth transition between all notes is another matter. Not only keeping them even and in tune, but making them connect flawlessly and musically is taking technique to the "next level".
So do not dismiss the "easy" audition material too quickly. It gives everyone the chance to display how perfectly they can (really) play. Bottom line: stop the gumbling, accept the challenge, place your fate in the ears of the auditioners and play your best........and good luck.
Post Edited (2004-09-18 16:00)
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2004-09-18 18:04
Another thought with the "easy" audition material is that it does give an opportunity to show any skill you may have with expression. That may be a part of the difference between someone who wins a position in all-state band and someone who doesn't.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-09-18 21:59
I'm not sure what's 'boring' about Rubank advanced, except that so much space is devoted scales (blisteringly essential), arpeggios (almost as much so) and scales-in-thirds (the true backbreaker of finger technique).
These elements must be addressed, one way or another. While I don't use Rubank Advanced myself, I'm glad that it does address those issues.
Another component of Rubank Advanced's boredom factor is that most students do not understand what the exercises are for. When I get a new student, I immediately take inventory on their scales and ask if they know why they learn them. Most perceive scales as a standard for testing and auditions, and few if any understand how to use them as a reading aid. Ditto for arpeggios, and that goes at least triple for scales-in-thirds. Such exercises might be less boring--or given more importance in the mind of the student--if an understanding of their use is instilled.
I have a feeling that in the next 10 years or so, we're going to see some superior materials coming out, and some serious reordering of teaching methods. We're going to have to do it in order to retain most students and keep band and orchestra music alive in schools that are now offering guitar and keyboard classes.
Allen Cole
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-19 01:02
There are plenty of books which address the essentials but aren't BORING.
Hite has em, Galper did em, Lazarus did em, Klose did em.........
but Rubank did em boringly IMNSHO 
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-19 11:04
To defend the Alaska All State selection it's possible that they wanted to select something from a book that it easy to find and affordable.
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-09-20 01:38
...wow. Wasn't expecting so many replies. I can't respond to each comment, but I'll try in general.
Originally, my topic was split between two sub-topics. One was how Rubank compares to the Hite series, the other was All-State in Alaska. The general consensus seems to be that the Rubank series is a good prep course leading into the the more advanced stuff (Baermann, Hite, perhaps Klose?), and after buying the second volume yesterday, I can certainly see how that would be true. I've already gone through half of the first volume, playing each exercise twice (the first for sightreading, the second to play musically), but I expect to have to spend a bit more time on the second volume, at least two months. I'm sure that perhaps spending a week in the first volume might be considered rushing for a lot of students, but hey, I play Bass Clarinet. We eat, drink, and breathe counting and time. Playing the exercises in solid time without rushing and what not really wasn't much of a problem. Playing the artistic excercises with expression was slightly more difficult, but a lot of it was intuitive. I'm all for learning the basics before moving on to the advanced (a lot of you made that point in your replies), I'm a senior in high school this year, and with the exception of a few etudes from Artistic Studies back in New Mexico for All-State, all I've done is the basics. I'd like to think that after 6 years of learning the basics, I get to move on.
The other sub-topic was that of Alaska All-State, and my unhappiness that such easy music was being used for audition. Between the replies I got from all of you and some thought on the matter, my opinion has changed on this. While the fact that the music we're trying out on is technically easy will perhaps level the playing field somewhat (never a good thing when you're on the upper end of that playing field to start off with!), I also realize that being able to play technically difficult passages is not going to be of much use to a Bass Clarinetist at the high school level! Much more important is going to be our ability to play with a good sound, with expression, keeping in tempo. While I'll continue to pursue technically difficult studies outside of school (I just bought the complete Klose book, which looks to be loads of fun), I think I'll use this experience to help me develop other qualities of my playing.
Thanks for the replies, all.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2004-09-20 01:45
Lance,
Well said.
Looks like you have learned a new perspective on playing. Nice work and the cost - other than to your hide - was low.
HRL
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-09-20 01:46
I think some of us are missing the point. The point, to me at least, is that when you are asked to play something, you play it to the best of your ability without passing judgment or being a snob. So if being in all-state has value to you, then do your best with the Rubank solo. That's all there is to it.
Post Edited (2004-09-20 01:48)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-09-20 06:53
There are several things that can cause audition music to of this nature. David has already pointed out that the audition committee may want to use materials that are readily available in most areas. That would certainly make Rubank books a top choice.
The anticipated ability level of the auditionees is another. If audition music is too easy, it may be difficult to rank top players who could reach near-perfect scores. If the audition music is too hard, it could make judging the top players easier, but make everyone else seem bad to the same degree.
This is particularly critical for clarinets, who are typically the most numerous instrument present in these auditions. In one of my local districts there are over a hundred present each year, and a fairly reliable bias towards those who play later in the day. There is much concern about providing audition music that minimizes the need for hairsplitting by the already-fatigued judges.
Allen Cole
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