 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2004-09-10 01:24
Has anybody ever had the cork just fall off their mouthpiece? I would like to repair this myself, do you think this is reasonable? I have been using it for many years, so it owes me nothing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jim lande
Date: 2004-09-10 02:14
I have had plenty of cork fall off of mouthpieces and tenons. Always cork I installed myself. I used rubber cement, which works well until cork grease works its way through the cork and softens the rubber cement. Ferrees and others sell a cork cement that works much better. Also, I seem to recall Dr. Slick saying that some cork greases are more likely to disolve cement than other cork greases. There is a link to Doctor's Products in resources. Search the board if you want to see glowing reviews of the Doctor's products.
Should you do it yourself? Maybe. Keep in mind that you need to buy new cork and a thing of cement and you will need a sharp knife and something to sand the cork (220 grit open mesh drywall sandpaper is my favorite). And, you will mess it up once or twice. Most shops will replace cork for not much money and do it surprisingly quickly (And hopefully fast, too).
Good luck and I hope you go for it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2004-09-10 03:24
i use DAP contact cement, less than $2 a bottle from Lowes or Home Depot.
-paul
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-09-10 07:09
Re the instructions in the link:
a. Removing existing cork grease: Take care. Without EXPERIENCE, it is very easy to damage the 'walls' at either side of the cork groove!
b. If your piece of cork is brittle enough, or the imperfections great enough, to snap when bent around the tenon, I suggest it is high time to throw it out.
c. RE "painting" the cork and tenon.... The thickness of application is quite important for good success, and depends on just which contact adhesive product is used. Painting is out of the question for many glues. I squeeze some dabs of glue to the area needed, then spread with my finger, which provides excellent feedback re coverage. Experience helps a lot when applying this type of adhesive.
d. Putting aside the glued cork to dry. The word 'dry' could be misleading. The timing is fairly critical for a good result, and it depends on the weather, the particular adhesive, the absorbency of the particular piece of cork, and how thick the glue is applied. Experience helps a lot! 5-10 minutes would result in failure, the way I do the job. BTW I don't think any of my many hundreds of tenon cork gluings have EVER failed.
e. Wrapping the Tenon Cork.
The diagram of this in progress is for left handed people (for the later sanding operation, should a file-type sanding device be used), and will not result in what is shown in fig 2 & 3, which is the result wanted for a RIGHT handed person. If it is not done the correct 'handedness' then the thin end of the cork bevel will tend to lift during the sanding.
f. Sanding: Using a strip of sand paper runs a very high risk of also sanding the timber on either side of the cork. Most of the sanding, to round off the edges of the cork, should be done BEFORE the glue is applied to the cork, while the cork is still flat. Sanding on the instrument, for thickness adjustment, can be done with far more control (to protect the timber!) if the sandpaper is glued to the surface of a suitable flat stick, or as I have done, the surface of an old light file, which has had the teeth ground off.
g. Adjusting the fit: It is difficult, without EXPERIENCE, to tell just how tight the cork should be BEFORE using cork grease. after using cork grease, sanding becomes difficult because of the lubricant, and because the sandpaper clogs with grease.
Good luck
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-09-10 12:08
Gordon, your explanations and instructions always inspire me to reevaluate the way I do things. Yes, when the cork falls off I would agree it's time to replace it. OR, sometimes a single wrap of electrician's tape will get you another few years. I do agree that the direction one wraps the cork makes a difference. I have never mastered the art of tapering the edges prior to glueing. Not getting paid for doing cork I'm too cheap to pay for the pro thin cork and just use automotive gasket cork 1/16 thick(it's not all the same!) AND after affixing the cutting off the excess I wrap the job with an old sweat pants waist cord...applying tension on it as I wrap and then holding the ends for, oh, a minute or so. Then I remove the cord and let it sit overnight. Sanding is best tone with 220 grit paper glued to a tongue depressor that has been adjusted to the correct width so that the wood/plastic is not touched. i.e. the paper is narrower than the depressor.
But as you say, the real trick is knowing when the cork is sanded just enough. Oh, I cut the cork from the sheet with a circular cloth cutter.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-09-10 13:38
I too am one that uses automotive cork every now and then. The first time was because it was readily available but I must admit that at 4-5 USD for a 1' x 3' roll the price is sure right. Unfortunately, it's only available in 1/16 or 1/8 thicknesses. It is not solid cork but cork bits glued together so must be carefully cut or it crumbles, I use a new X-acto knife blade. It also compresses more then regular cork. Tenon joints are glued with contact cement and fit and sanded immediately afterwards. This cork has also been used for some pads on my bass clarient and for pads on Buffet doughnut keys. However, you must steam iron it "flat" and sand it well before tying to make a pad.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-09-10 16:02
I believe the clues to using automotive cork sheet successfully are: 1. Select the densest appearing roll on display at the store 2. Yes, very careful cutting, I've found the circular cloth knives the best for cutting the sheet and Ferree's cork knive for trimming 3. Very slow bending while compressing with one's thumb and final string compression. In addition if you save the dust from sanding and impregnate it in the cured cork using a paraffin stick it helps. I realize the pros wouldn't tolerate such work...but it works.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: contragirl
Date: 2004-09-10 16:33
I just took it to a local tech who did it for $5. Then then raised their price to $10. :(
--CG
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-09-10 23:22
Agglomerated (composite) cork comes in many qualities. Automotive gasket cork, or at least most of it, is about as bad as it gets for clarinet tenons.
If you use this, which has compressive and gripping qualities which really are rather UNsuitable for clarinet tenons, for many reasons, then you will have far difficulty doing a good job, and the result will be vastly inferior.
IMHO It could be compared to using a fork for spreading butter, using automotive cork for repairing a puncture in a bicycle tyre, using rope as a belt for trousers. using sacking to re-upholster a chair......
For $5.76 you can buy a sheet of ideal natural cork, large enough for 12 tenons. Doesn't it seem just a little ridiculous and masochistic to persevere with composite cork? See:
http://www.musicmedic.com/catalog/products/cork-100.html
High quality composite cork, in the same site, costs about the same!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-09-11 01:24
Gordon, on the clarinet I play 4 hours a day 7 days a week I have two tenons with "normal" instrument cork and two with automotive composite cork. All done about 5 months ago. At the moment I can see no difference between the two. Ask me this same question in 5 years.
As a player I actually prefer the automotive cork as you have to grease it less frequently given its compressability.
On top of that, once you figure it out, automotive cork appears to make really good pads. It is gasket material and not supposed to leak. Most of the "real" cork I have can't be used for pads, too many imperfections.
Now for the disclaimer. I have purchased gasket cork from Canadian Tire and it is a useless material for clarinets. However, the cork rolls I buy from Schuck's Auto in the US are fine.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-09-11 01:40)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-09-11 04:04
The automotive cork that you are experiencing on your clarinet must be very different from what I picture.
There are obviously many types. What I am thinking of is a lot harder than natural cork, is difficult to sand, has a far higher friction coefficient, and does not retain cork grease.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-09-11 14:19
posted in error
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-09-11 14:28)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2004-09-11 14:25
Attachment: p1010016a.jpg (48k)
Gordon, here is a photo of the cork I am referring too. Please note that I am not recommending its use in general practice only stating that it can be used in emergency situations. If I took an instrument to a qualified repair technician and he used this stuff I would be pretty upset. When one does their own repairs they are a lot more tolerant.
While we are on this subject what is world's recommendation for cleaning the grooves in tenons prior to gluing, specially shellac on antiques? I do like the water pump pliers idea for cleaning the tenon itself when contact cement has been used previously.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2004-09-11 14:38)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-09-12 00:36
"...what is world's recommendation for cleaning the grooves in tenons prior to gluing, specially shellac on antiques? ..."
I find the specialized scraper tool from Eric Brand to be ideal. (Similar ones now... Cork Peeler "F12" from Ferrees, and T1403 from Allied). I suspect a lot more control against damaging the groove walls with this tool, rather than with using pliers.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-09-13 18:04
Thank God I read this thread. Up until now, I suffered a conviction of my competence to replace a tenon cork. In future, I would not attempt it under any circumstance.
Thank you all for your helping me to recognize my failings.
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2004-09-14 13:45
"Water pump pliers"!! They work great if you're careful...and if you have a pair. But if you go to your local Ace hardware and ask for them you'll get the same blank stare you'd get if you asked for a "monkey wrench"....or in the U.S. a "spanner"...."Nov Schmoz kapop"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
