 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2004-09-02 10:56
It has been a while since I put anything in the Classifieds for sale but have been amazed by the good/ and bad responses. It is not Mark's fault but in the responses in the last week have been 3 scam (or to my thinking scam) attempts from international sources. It is relatively obvious, but to the unsophisticated seller they might seem real. Sellers - do not give your bank routing information to unknown buyers. Do not accept unknown cashier's checks because they may be fakes. Even credit card sales are suspect and take 2 months to pop up as fraudulent. If you do not know the buyer there are few safe ways to sell items other than cash and postal money orders drawn in country funds (even these can be counterfeited now I guess). I do not want to discourage international customers but a few crooks ruin the game for everyone. Does anyone have a foolproof way to encourage international sales and discourage potential fraud?
The Doctor
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-09-02 11:08
The bottom of every page in the Classifieds section has a warning in bold, red letters on the most common of scams - a "cashier's cheque" made out for an amount in excess of the amount requested. You're supposed to send them the difference in cash AND your item.
You're not supposed to know that the cashier's cheque is phony; the unfortunate part is that even cashier's cheques take a finite amout of time to process even though people think they're the same as cash. In one very important respect those cheques ARE the same as cash - if they're counterfeit you're left "holding the (empty) bag".
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2004-09-02 14:11
When I was selling clarinets online I used BidPay (a money order) and PayPal a lot. While not totally fool-proof, they have some good security checks. If you use BidPay, you're using a credit card to send a money order. However, if a seller isn't legit--that presents another problem.
My advise for what it's worth:
1. Contact the seller and discuss the merchandise. This can be by phone if he/she has provided a number, or via email.
2. Get as many photos of the item as possible. If they say they don't have any way to take a photo and get it to you, suggest they get someone to take one and then mail it to you or have someone digitize it for them.
3. Ask lots of questions about the product until you're satisfied they really have it and it's as they said.
4. Be sure they offer a money back guarantee if the merchandise isn't as it was represented. Some will even give you a few days to try the instrument. This would be at your own expense in shipping, of course.
5. Ask them for a reference--other people who've bought things from them--or individual references if this is the only thing they're selling.
6. If it's on the classifieds, send Mark an email and ask him if he knows the person at all. (Hope that's ok, Mark)
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Author: Bani
Date: 2004-09-03 04:38
>Does anyone have a foolproof way to encourage international sales and >discourage potential fraud?
The Doctor raises a very interesting question which is not that easily answered, unfortunately?
From my perspective as an international (non-US) buyer, the internet (e-bay in particular) has opened up a whole new dimension in global commerce. Now one does not have to be physically in the US to buy anything there and vice-versa. Unfortunately this has also opened up global opportunities for fraudsters.
For US sellers, here’s some pointers which may help you weed out genuine international buyers from the fraudsters:
1. A genuine non-US buyer would prefer to use an established marketing website (such as ebay for example) for obvious reasons. In fact almost anyone I know who’s bought anything from the US on-line used ebay.
Now I’m not saying there are no genuine non-US buyers who may go into this BB’s classifieds but I think they would be more the exception rather than the rule. So if you want to sell anything to non-US buyers it may be more helpful to do it on ebay.
2. In terms of payment, anyone who uses ebay (following from #1) would logically have the facility to pay according to ebay rules. So if a non-US buyer insists on paying by some other means, think twice before selling to him/her. (I know someone who doesn’t have an ebay account so he asked a friend who has an ebay account to buy the item for him and gave his friend the money)
3. Non-US buyers who go online are generally very sophisticated in the sense that they know exactly what they’re looking for and how much they’re willing to pay for it. So if you speak to (or email) anyone who knows little (or claims to know little) about clarinets, beware.
Hope this helps.
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Author: Karel
Date: 2004-09-03 07:05
I don't think I agree with Bani that e-Bay is a preferred site for "overseas buyers". Personally I much prefer to deal with a "real" dealer such as The Doctor or ww&bw, and have had no problems doing so.
Karel.
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Author: jo.clarinet
Date: 2004-09-03 10:40
As someone who has bought quite a few clarinets and clarinet-related things through the USA eBay (I'm in England), I was pleased to read that I'm very sophisticated - LOL! Thanks, Bani!
Joanna Brown
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Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2004-09-04 04:25
I think the past few posts have somewhat strayed from the original--The question of how to weed out the fraudulent buyers. The emails I have received all have a similar pattern. It's like they use a letter template and insert your item in. For example, if the title of your classified reads, "Greg Smith Bb Clarinet Mouthpiece facing 1+", the letter will look something like this: (this is an actual letter I received)
"i saw your advert so am interested in buying your ( Greg Smith Bb Clarinet Mouthpiece facing 1+) and i will be paying with a cashiers cheque
draw from us .if you are still interested in
selling it mail me back so that i can send the cheque for payment and i
will ike to know the actual price of it one more important thing i will
want you to forward me your FULL NAME,ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER that you
will use in receiving the check as soon as possible. EXPECTING YOUR
MAIL SOONEST. Regards"
As you can see, they seem to just have a blanket letter they use and then insert your item in a quite obvious way (in this case in parenthesis--a little too obvious there). They usually ask for your "final asking price" or the "actual price" too.
Here's another recent one I've received:
"I am interested in your[Buffet Pre-R13 Full Boehm
System Bb Clarinet]and I'll like to know your last offering price if it
will be okay with me. I'll be making my payment with a cashier's check.
If you do I want you to get in touch with me immediately for me to
proceed with the Payment. As for the shipping I'll contact a shipper agent
of mine who will arranged for the Pick up as soon as the transaction is
sealed and get back .I'll be looking forward to your response.Thanks
and Have a Nice day.Regards."
They mentioned getting in contact with his shipper... The whole middle-man idea makes it sound a bit fishy and that should be a big red flag. And, as you can see, the item is in parenthesis again suggesting that this is another template-type letter.
Hope this helps!
K. Denny
BME, MM, DMA
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