 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-31 17:33
Has anyone noticed another clarinet that has reached the market? It's got the same instrument as FirstAct. The only difference is that it is labeled with "Borg" and not "FirstAct." The case seems to be a little nicer with a faux leather type outside. The inside of the case is still exactly the same.
I can't seem to find any listing as to the manufacturer. I checked the FirstAct site (firstact.com).
What stores are carrying this brand? I haven't seen them at Walmart or Sam's Club.
-pat
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-08-31 18:17
I agree these clarinets are a scourge, but I've never tried them. Who all has?
I see them at Sam's (yes, they finally accepted my membership application -- yay!) all locked up in the display case like Fonzie's jacket at the Smithsonian. Do they let you try them out?h
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-08-31 18:29
The market is flooded with dozens and dozens of inexpensive clarinets and saxophones, sold on the Internet or by mass-market retailers or by fly-by-night distributors, as well as by legitimate music stores (who should know better). My understanding is that all of these, regardless of brand or frou-frou case decorations, are made in a small number of Chinese factories (or Taiwanese for some of the 'better' instruments) and cranked out by the tens of thousands. There's no sense in debating the relative merits of one of these 'brands' over another --- they're the SAME INSTRUMENT --- they all play (sort of), they are no fun to repair when they break, and they will break early and often. They are disposable instruments --- if that's what people want, then people deserve them. Personally I'd prefer musical instruments of better quality that are built to last a lifetime, for myself and for my children. And price is not really the issue, as a savvy buyer can get a good refurbished real instrument for about the same or slightly more money as an Asian-made throwaway --- the key word here is 'savvy'. The "non-savvy" will buy their clarinets at Wal-mart, just as (if I may make an analogy that is going to get me a pile of flame letters) the 'non-savvy' car buyer will gravitate to, say, a Saturn dealership*.........
*maybe not a fair analogy, as product-wise the Saturn is not that bad....the point is that better cars are available for the same or less money, however the buyer has to do some research up front, then go face the dealerships and possibly haggle over price in order to get the car.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-31 18:34
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> however the buyer has to do some research
> up front, then go face the dealerships and possibly haggle over
> price in order to get the car.
Sort of like buying an R-13 ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2004-08-31 21:39
Borg clarinets -- resistance is futile.
At least Alaska and Hawaii are safe.
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Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-31 22:00
Who the hell came up with the brilliant idea of naming them "Borg" clarinets? Sure, there's a musical name. You'd think they could at least put some effort into it. By the way, that case is nifty. Too bad they couldn't put something worthwhile inside.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-08-31 22:18
The clarinets were named after Simeon "Sy" Borg, a Danish industrialist who actually designed the clarinet in 1773, but made the horrible mistake of selling the patent rights to one J. Denner, yada yada yada.........
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-08-31 22:20
I find it interesting that the pro-horn marfia run down these cheap instruments (probably with good reason) and I'd almost bet that none of them have actually played one.
Maybe some of you might just realise that a lot of people cannot afford to purchase even a cheap big four brand clarinet. I'd rather someone start playing on junk and then at least be given an opportunity to have some musical experience ... who knows, they might very well then realise they need to save, save, save to buy a pro-horn. Then they'll realise they they own a perfect instrument that needs absolutely know fine tuning right out of the box ...
If I'd not had my first cheap musical instrument (as my parents were very poor) then I'd never have had the opportunity to play and eventually work as a professional musician.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2004-08-31 22:20)
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-31 22:20
Forgot to mention this earlier -
GBK, thanks for the site.
DS - interesting little tidbit I did not know.
-pat
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-31 22:30
I have played these horns and I have seen firsthand what can happen to them. they tend to be extremely stuffy and the equipment falls out of adjustment very easily. It is often more costly to fix the instrument than it is to buy it in the first place. When it does go out of adjustment, since most repairshops will not work on them, the owner is then forced to send out the instrument for warranty work and the student is then without an instrument for an extended period of time. These are very fragile instruments. The case is worth more than it cost to build (labor included) the clarinet, IMHO.
There are ways to buy good quality instruments for less. It does mean not purchasing new. To go back to the car analogies, would you rather buy a new Yugo or a used Honda for the same price? Price is always a concern, but you have to be smart about what is worth purchasing.
This really doesn't have any bearing on pro-horns. The instrument in mention is a student horn. It wouldn't be fair to compare this to a pro horn. I do not believe that to be the intention here, nor was it my intention. I'm more concerned with finding quality student instruments for beginners.
-pat
Post Edited (2004-08-31 23:32)
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Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-31 22:40
Diz, you can get used selmers, buffets and yamahas on Ebay for about 100$, which are infinitely better choices than these pieces of trash. I thank the lord for my first instrument and what it did for me, too... I got it used for about $200 canadian. It was a YCL-26. If you can't afford a new one, buy used. Don't buy junk. That's my opinion, anyways.
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2004-08-31 23:00
unfortunately i bet a lot of people wouldn't even imagine clarinets being sold on e-bay
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Author: CPW
Date: 2004-08-31 23:22
FYI
Borg will be found only in the Delta area.
Six of Nine of the the instruments are bad....but the Seven of Nine is outstanding, although topheavy.
I took one to a repairshop. The repair person said "state your name and instrumental emergency." The tech found that it was.... warped.
He suggested a Picard Barrel with a Janeway taper.
.....the floodgate is now open for biz.
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2004-08-31 23:34
I may have to Warp 9 out of here or Stargate to a different forum if this keeps up!
-pat
...but I am enjoying the 'bad' humor.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2004-09-01 01:08
i play tested 6 of these CSO's; in 3 separate batches from 2 different suppliers.
all 6 broke within 45 minutes. i repaired one of them, it broke again within the hour.
keys bending, cork falling off, springs popping, what a mess.
garbage, the lot of them.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Bani
Date: 2004-09-01 03:02
>By the way, that case is nifty. Too bad they couldn't put something worthwhile inside.
> The case is worth more than it cost to build (labor included) the clarinet, IMHO.
This gives me an idea. I need a new case for the Leblanc I bought off ebay (its a great piece) but the ones available are either too heavy or too pricy. Maybe I'll buy a Borg, throw away the clarinet, and use the "nifty" case.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2004-09-01 03:35
diz,
As I said before, I've never tried them, but I'll rely on the word of those who know more than me and trust that they're awful.
The big issue, though, is that Wal-Mart and Sam's, the largest retailers in the world, could strike bargain deals with quality manufacturers to offer good products on their shelves at very attractive prices. That could be the traditional music store's worst nightmark, but I'd imagine Steinway, Music Group, Leblanc, et al, would be eager to make use of Wal-Mart's vast distribution network. And since Wal-Mart is very big on offering American-made products, the student Selmer and Leblanc instruments would give them (pardon the pun) a big American-made horn to blow. Instead, these awful things are what they choose to sell.
I go to Wal-Mart pretty regularly for certain things I need, and my wife and I swear by the giant bag of stir-fry veggies we can only find at Sam's. So I think Wal-Mart's rep of offering lousy products is usually unfair. But these horns sure aren't helping their reputation
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Tara
Date: 2004-09-02 03:47
As a beginning band director, the sale of these "instruments" (ISO's) has been a nightmare. Every year we beg and plead with the parents to at least give their kids a CHANCE to be successful, and get them a decent instrument! Lucky this year- only one girl showed up with one (a flute) and mom very happily returned it after speaking with me.
I told my husband I wanted to run into the local Sam's and put up signs that said "NO! BAND DIRECTORS SAY THESE ARE CRAP!" but he talked me out of it...
Oh the woes of a band director... ha ha ha
Tara
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-09-02 04:12
Selmers and Leblancs in Walmart at Walmart prices... I would never have money again. Back to the topic at hand, I looked over at the glass case that holds the flute, trumpet, and clarinet and noticed that the clarinet seemed a little off. The bell seemed so large. I pitied the poor kid whose parent gets them one. Although one of the freshmen has a FirstAct trumpet. Lyres don't fit on it.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2004-09-02 22:23
The band director for our local schools sends info home on the first day of school to the parents of band members, and prospective band members, announcing a meeting for band members parents. This meeting outlines the plans for the upcoming year (concerts, parades, football games, fundraisers, etc. ) and also gives guidlines on acceptable instruments and where to buy and rent them, if Uncle Ralph doesn't have one in his closet. This helps minimize the number of ISOs that appear.
John
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-09-02 22:34
May I assume that the only clarinet on the band director's "acceptable" list is the Buffet R-13? [he said, dodging flames and bullets from the gang of Buffet Mafiosi]
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-09-02 22:52
David S. your cynical-barb bites deep, but made me laugh.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-09-02 22:58
Thanks diz......i figure, if I can't please the audience with my clarinet playing, I might as well give 'em amusing cynical barbs........now if I could only make money at it somehow.............
Dave's Cynical Barbs!
Only $9.95 per dozen!
Guaranteed to make you laugh, or make you angry, or your money back!
Order before midnight tonight, operators are standing by to take your order!
Autumn is here. The kids have gone back to school. The traffic is miserable again. (Snower Maria Schilke)
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-09-03 02:06
One of my students bought a First Act clarinet to use in marching band... I played on it and it was actually better than I thought it would be (as far as notes responding and tonal consistency - and by this I mean the tone was consistenly bad, haha). However, the thing was horribly out of tune with itself (which is enough to make it unusable in any legitimate music activity). The throat tone A and Bb were almost a half step too sharp, yet, the rest of the notes were pretty close tuning wise.
DH
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2004-09-03 02:23
David S.
Naw, the buffet mafia hasn't taken over our small town in North Carolina yet.
It has made some inroads into our larger neighbor Wilmington.
We still have many brands and models. I'm suprised at the fairly large percentage of vintage Mazzios that turn up. I think they are constantly being recycled within the community.
John
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Author: glin
Date: 2004-09-03 14:25
They've disappeared from my local Costco.
But I saw an in store flyer for these instruments at Kmart-just in time for back to school.
Next thing you know, they'll be on "blue light" specials waiting for the unsuspecting but good intentioned parent to purchase...
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