 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brian Peterson
Date: 2004-08-30 01:11
I just now finished listening to the Berlin/Rostropovich recording of the Dvorak Cello concerto for probably the eleventy millionth time. I swear I never get tired of listening to that piece and this particular recording. The cello part is fabulous as is the clarinet part which brings me to my totally subjective question.
In your opinion, what's the best non solo concerto part for clarinet in the repetoire?
Brian Peterson
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-08-30 02:06
There are so many that that's a tough one ... some of my favourites:
Ravel, Daphnis et Chloe ... any of the prominant solos
Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 5 ... especially the opening
Elgar, Symphony No. 1 ... the beautiful solo in the slow movement (solo violin plays a similar figuration)
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: Brian Peterson
Date: 2004-08-30 02:13
Diz,
Great pieces indeed.
What I am wondering though is what other non clarinet instrumental concertos, like the Dvorak offer a great part for clarinet.
BP
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Author: Tara
Date: 2004-08-30 02:44
I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the Barber violin concerto. I can listen to it over and over, time after time, and it still sounds fresh and beautiful to me. And yes, there are a few lovely clarinet spots- although the oboe gets the most gorgeous solo...
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-30 03:15
From the standard orchestral repertoire, my 5 favorites, based on using the clarinet to its fullest capacity in the orchestral texture:
Artunian - Trumpet Concerto
Tchaikovsky - Violin Concerto
Rachmaninoff - 2nd Piano Concerto
Liszt - 1st Piano Concerto
Mendelssohn - Violin Concerto ...GBK
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-08-30 04:08
The second movement of the Beethoven Violin concerto has a lovely clarinet solo near the beginning. It sort of accompanies the violin, shortly after the violin enters. It's simple, but very beautiful.
Don Hite
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-30 04:18
theclarinetist wrote:
> The second movement of the Beethoven Violin concerto has a
> lovely clarinet solo near the beginning.
I've heard more than one performance where the clarinetist botched the C transposition.
When in doubt, write it out (or get a C clarinet)...GBK
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-08-30 04:50
Doesn't the Schumann Piano Concerto have some neat things in it? I am remembering from years ago, and do not have a recording or a score to double check. At least I remember its having some good wind writing, whether or not for clarinet!
Katrina
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-08-30 04:57
Gordon Kerry's trumpet concerto has some pretty spectacular clarinet writting as does his viola concerto.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-08-30 06:33
Berlioz fantastic symphony has a solo for Eb clarinet which is kind of gypsy-like. It's pretty good imo.
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Author: thechosenone
Date: 2004-08-30 14:24
The Ravel Piano Concerto has some killer Eb parts, and some neat Bb parts in some spots
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-30 16:21
Khachaturian Sym. #3 has a great Clarinet part - it isn't titled a Concerto, but it really is basically a Concerto for Organ.
Wild, really wild piece. Pretty much like the "wild organist" pieces for a haunted house.
I have a recording of Stokowski conducting the Chicago Sym. and the Clarinet solos are quite uneven. Fast triplets which are plain sloppy.
I wonder who was the Principal Clarinetist at the time (1969)? (Stein??)
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-08-30 16:39
To add to the Beethoven violin concerto discussion...
The outer movements are in A, so it makes sense to stay on this and tranpose accordingly.
A C clarinet for that beautiful solo? Yuck!
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Author: Brad
Date: 2004-08-30 18:20
Some of my favorites
Sibelius Violin Concerto
Shostakovich Cello Concerto, Violin Concerto (Bass Clarinet)
Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue
Beethoven Piano Concerto #5
Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto #2
Prokofiev Piano Concerto #3?? maybe #4, The one that opens with the big Clarinet solo.
Brad Cohen
Clarinetist@verizon.net
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-08-30 18:41
Some of my favorites:
Mozart : Piano Concertos 22 and 23
Beethoven : 1st Piano Concerto, Violin Concerto
Brahms : 2nd Piano Concerto (an "Iron Lung" solo in Mvmt. 3)
Schumann : Piano Concerto
Khachaturian : Violin Concerto (a huge part)
Prokofiev : 1st Violin Concerto, 3rd Piano Concerto
Sibelius : Violin Concerto
Strauss : Don Quixote
Rachmaninoff : 2nd Piano Concerto
Barber : Piano Concerto
Mel Powell : Duplicates
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-30 19:34
David Blumberg wrote:
> I have a recording of Stokowski conducting the
> Chicago Sym. and the Clarinet solos are quite uneven.
> Fast triplets which are plain sloppy.
> I wonder who was the Principal Clarinetist
> at the time (1969)? (Stein??)
Clark Brody ...GBK
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-08-30 22:00
RAMan said:
C clarinet for that beautiful solo? Yuck
It's exactly what Beethoven scored it for ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-08-30 22:22
Diz said,
It's exactly what Beethoven scored it for...
Indeed, but what do composers know about clarinet playing?
lol
Seriously though, don't you think if Beethoven heard an outstanding orchestral clarinettist on a good quality modern A clarinet (oh hang on, those are impossible to find so I'm told...) over what it would sound like on a modern C clarinet (which, I would suggest, are somewhat behind the other modern clarinets in terms of development...) that he would approve using it?
Also bear in mind the intonation issues...you play a 12 minutes first movement, then pick up a cold C clarinet. As I said before, yuck!!
As another (less likely...) consideration, maybe Ludvig or his copyist were feeling lazy..and simply copied out the violin part for the solo in concert pitch!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-30 22:55
So I guess my idea of playing the Mozart Clarinet Concerto on C clarinet is out of the question ...GBK 
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-08-30 23:13
Ah, we becry having to live in the part of history before someone's brilliant inventive mind comes up with an invention to keep the C clarinet warm until it's needed! A plug-in clarinet blanket open at the top so you can whip out the instrument and play it? Or a plug-in clarinet stand that provides low heat rising through the bore and keeps the baby toasty warm until needed? Surely the minds that create great limericks can come up with something ready to sell at the next ClarinetFest. What do you think, guys?
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-08-30 23:44
Bradley,
First of all, you took most of that post far too seriously!
Next...who suggested to me it may be a good idea to play it on the A clarinet?
Andrew Mariner and Chi-yu mo, in an orchestral extract class.
Tim lines suggested removing various bits of certain Schubert symphonies from A to B flat.
Michael Collins, Angela Malsbury, Keith Puddy, Mark van de Wiel (one specific conversation about Kodaly's Hary Janos springs to mind...) all suggest performing/or have performed various poorly scored sections of orchestral works on different clarinets.
So hang on...we have the LSO section, the new CBSO principal, the ex principal of the Philharmonia, the Mozart players principal and the current Philharmonia principal changing the composers 'intentions' so that in the end they sound better.
None of them have any right to do it, doesn't stop them doing it.
Post Edited (2004-08-30 23:47)
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-08-30 23:48
Oh, and Brenda...I've seen a clarinet peg that blows warm air up the instrument!!
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Author: marcia
Date: 2004-08-31 04:45
"It's exactly what Beethoven scored it for...
Indeed, but what do composers know about clarinet playing?"
I don't know about Beethoven but I did read that Prokoffiev wrote all parts in concert pitch and left it to the copyist to do the transposition. So some composers do not care which instrument is used.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-08-31 11:07
Bradley,
Erm, yeah. Don't you know that we rule the world?
(Yeah right)
Marcia, I agree with you that it could be something along these lines...although why would the outer movements then be in A?
It's an interesting subject...I'm sure we'll never know the answer. On thing is for sure, I shall continue to use my for the solo in the second movement!
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-08-31 20:39
RAMman- have you actually ever tried playing the second movement on a C clarinet in an orchestra? I've had some very positive and unexpected results using C clarinets, just because some conductors insisted that we use them. Don't just accept what other clarinet players tell you!
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-08-31 22:18
Liquorice,
I don't own one, but all those I have played I would never take anywhere near an orchestra.
I'm all for trying new things, but I don't doubt that personally I can play the solo better on an A. I also stand by my intonation comments...I think it's not good to change onto a cold clarinet for the middle movement.
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Author: AbrahamFack;e
Date: 2004-09-01 03:43
I prefer to play all my Eb and A clarinet parts (haven't come across a C part yet, but I'm sure I will someday) on the Bb... it's just easier that way. My teacher so far has fallen for the "I can't afford a good A clarinet" line... but I don't know how he'd react when he finds out I've got a perfectly good eefer gathering dust under the bed at home while I screech altissimo in band...
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-09-01 19:59
RAMman- sadly you've inherited the laziness of your mentors. But that's normal- we always tend to try to find the easiest route to achieving our goals. But I would like to question your goals! If you did practise the C clarinet so that you could make a good sound on it and play it in tune, why would you then decide not to play this movement on C clarinet? My experience of playing Beethoven's music has led me to believe that it wasn't just a matter of chance or copyists whims that resulted in certain movements being written for C clarinet.
Why do you think Schubert wrote only one of the movements of the Octet for C clarinet? I don't think that it was a mistake. And I'm sure that most of the fine clarinetists that you mentioned don't believe that either, but they are also likely to say "I don't doubt that personally I can play the solo better on an A" or whatever...
What do you actually mean by "better"? More in tune? Then you just have some work to do. Pleasing to your own tonal concept? Or perhaps pleasing to the tonal concept of the composer??
What's wrong with changing to a cold clarinet? Unless your set-up is much too flat, you shouldn't have any problem picking up a cold clarinet and playing at A=440. That's just part of the life of a clarinetist- get used to it! Or do you also play Stravinsky's 3 Pieces or Bartok's Contrasts on one instrument? Do you really play the second movement of Rachmaninov's 2nd piano concerto on your B-flat clarinet??
Your goal may be to play as well as you can. But what about playing what the composer wanted? You certainly have an idea about how you'd like things to sound, but what about how the composer wanted them to sound?
Post Edited (2004-09-01 20:01)
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Author: marcia
Date: 2004-09-01 23:26
>Do you really play the second movement of Rachmaninov's 2nd piano >concerto on your B-flat clarinet??
As a matter of fact I, did. I thought many times "this should be played on "A". Eventually I had the chance to look at the score and discovered that it was in fact written for"A". For some strange reason the only parts we had were for "Bb". (One of life's little mysteries) Perhaps the copyist was taking inappropriate liberties?? Fortunately my fellow clarinetist's computor skills, or perhaps those of her son, are far better than mine and we had "A" parts very soon thereafter. What a relief that was!!
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Author: diz
Date: 2004-09-01 23:43
Someone once stated that the C Clarinet had/has a rather "matter of fact" sound (could have even been the illustrious GBK, but I honestly can't remember). I did, at first agree, but I've since heard one played recently and the sound was enchanting ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-09-01 23:53
Liquorice,
I have little to add to that, as clearly we shall not agree...apart from the comment about 'laziness of mentors' is insulting to some truly marvellous players.
1) You like to hear it as Beethoven did (hearing difficulties aside...)? You only ever play Beethoven on a period clarinet then?
2) Playing at 440 on a cold clarinet...doesn't make you in tune with an orchestra.
3) The jump from B flat to A cannot be compared to C. I have already suggested that the development of the modern C clarinet is somewhat behind that of the modern B flat or A.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-02 02:17
Here's the bottom link on this:
You play a C scale on a C Clarinet and it's going to sound differently than a D Scale on a Bb Clarinet. Same pitch, but totally different scale sound and feel.
Different timbre - not only because C Clarinet's basically sound like bright crap, but because the tonal quality of the notes are completely different.
If a composer cared enough to write music in a specific key, we should play it in that written key. If the composer was just 'too lazy' to write it in another key than that would be a different case, but how it lays and sounds should come first and foremost, not easy of play, but ease of sound (or whatever sound the composer was striving for).
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-09-02 06:17
RAMman- I stand by my comment about 'laziness' of mentors. It's not meant to be insulting, but it certainly is meant to be critical. I really do believe that the main reason most professional clarinetists don't play more on C clarinets is because of laziness- not making the effort to learn to play the C clarinet properly.
I do also play on period clarinets. But that's not really the point here. Would anybody today still play the Mozart Concerto on a full-boehm B-flat clarinet? I doubt it. So why play C clarinet music on an A clarinet??
"Playing at 440 on a cold clarinet...doesn't make you in tune with an orchestra" Of course not. But you were using the cold clarinet as an excuse not to be able to play in tune. It isn't a valid excuse, and it's something you're going to have to learn to do.
I know what you mean about the development of the modern Boehm C clarinet being behind the B-flat and A. But most of that is just your perception. You could say the same thing about the E-flat clarinet and the Basset horn, but it doesn't stop people learning to play them properly. However, Wurlitzer C clarinets are far superior to any Boehm C clarinet I've ever tried.
Post Edited (2004-09-02 06:19)
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-09-02 12:36
Michael Collins' versions of Beethoven's violin sonatas (admittedly not the concerto) are played on the C clarinet, and sound (while bright, and somewhat uninteresting) technically assured on the instrument.
Yet, when he plays the clarinet solo in the Beethoven violin concerto, he uses an A clarinet. Therefore, I would suggest it is 'lazy' to use a C clarinet...as he is more than capable of getting out a C clarinet and playing it perfectly, rather than transposing by a minor third.
Maybe this is a British thing. I shall continue to follow the advice of those players who play in the orchestral sections that I hope to work with in future years.
Just realised that last paragraph could sound insulting...it's not, I have no idea of your background and you could play with the NY Phil for all I know. I shall however continue to follow the advice of players I know.
Post Edited (2004-09-02 12:42)
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