 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-08-27 16:58
I´m currently looking for a new clarinet. I´m upgrading to a pro horn. I´ve already tried a few Buffet RC´s, but didn´t find them any better than my current horn Buffet E-11. I´ll continue looking for some other models and brands. I would like to know your honest opinion about which do you think is more important: How do YOU think your clarinet is sounding or how your teacher or some other thinks? If I feel my clarinet is not sounding so good and for example my teacher thinks it sounds fine, then who should I listen. Myself or him?
Thanks for any response!
Post Edited (2004-08-27 16:59)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-08-27 17:55
Are you playing primarily for your own satisfaction and enjoyment? (If so, how it sounds to YOU is most important). Or are you playing to please/impress an audience, an audition committee or your teacher? (In that case how it sounds to OTHERS is probably more important). My humble opinion only.
Also, remember that much of what you (the player) "hears" includes what we in the acoustics business call 'near-field' sound, which is not representative of what is heard a few meters or farther away as by your teacher or an audience. Finally. a lot of what you're 'hearing' is actually vibrations mechanically transmitted from the mouthpiece through your jaw and skull up to your ears -- this colors your perceived 'sound' quite a bit. Obviously listeners would not be affected.
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Author: opus1
Date: 2004-08-27 20:51
I agree with david. You could boil it down to 2 points
1. if it affects the paycheque...defer to the audience
2. If you play for pleasure it is only your pleasure that counts!!
Always educational to have a friend record from an audience seat. Assuming high quality recording and palyback it can be a real ear opener!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-08-27 23:11
If you don't believe your teacher you're wasting your money.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-08-28 00:39
You should feel good about your sound: it should be satisfying to you, and your audience should enjoy it. But bear in mind the audience has a wide variety of taste and so you'll never please some.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! ![[down]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley23.gif) Buffet
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2004-08-28 00:43
Gonna have to agree with Dave and Opus. When I was picking out both new mouthpieces and a new clarinet I valued the input of my teachers, and friends. These people often pointed out things about the quality I didn't notice. But on the other hand, you have to be happy with it. Maybe for a professional it's different but, I don't no how much of a point their is to playing if you, somewhere in your head, know that with a different horn your sound could be better.
So, choose it for yourself while valuing the thoughts of others.
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Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-28 03:34
Better insight than I could ever hope to offer has already been given, but I have this to say in defense of my instrument: if your E11 sounded the same as the RCs, you either have one hell of an E11, or you tested some rather sub-par RCs.
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-08-28 09:08
Thanks for your advice!
John, I think my E-11 is superb, but It might be that I didn´t get the best RCs to try in that shop. As I said before I´ll continue looking for my "baby".
I do believe and trust my teacher opinion, but I was just a bit confused because my opinion was a bit different than his.
Thanks again to you all!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-28 22:09
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How do YOU think your clarinet is sounding or how your teacher or some other thinks? If I feel my clarinet is not sounding so good and for example my teacher thinks it sounds fine, then who should I listen. Myself or him?
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Remember this one - if you teacher is qualified (not a hack, but knows what he is doing) you should listen to him. He knows a tremendous amt more about the Clarinet than you do.
He comes from the point of view of how it sounds, not how it feels to you. If it really doesn't feel good, or feels a lot worse than what you sound best on, than go with what feels better, but as for the sound - your teacher knows a lot better than you do.
Maybe 65% him - 35% you if you are pretty good. From you not being able to distinguish the quality between an E-11 and an RC, you may not be nearly as advanced as you may think.
Please don't feel that I'm trying to berate you - just answering your question as you cared enough to ask it.
Listen to your teacher, he knows best.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-08-29 00:59
If there was no difference between your E11 and the RC's in sound and feel, then maybe it's not yet time to be upgrading your instrument?
Once upon a time I decided I wanted to change from my Buffet R13. I tried everything: Leblanc, Yamaha, Selmer. I remember very distinctly that none seemed very different at all from my Buffet R13, so I didn't buy a new instrument.
About two years later I was in the same shop, trying the same instruments. In this case, I was trying the exact same Leblancs since no-one here buys them, and the Leblancs were so extremely different from the Buffet and I liked the way they played so much that that is what I bought.
Buuut then again I could be wrong so don't tear what say to shreds ok guys, I'm just offering my anecdotal point of view.
__________________
Don't hate me because I play Leblanc! Buffet
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-08-29 10:01
LeWhite wrote:
If there was no difference between your E11 and the RC's in sound and feel, then maybe it's not yet time to be upgrading your instrument?
I´ll certainly consider whether or not I should buy a new instrument. I just want to point out that it was my teacher who brought this issue out a few months ago, when he said that I would good enough to upgrade. So, we´ll see what happens!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-29 12:34
It could also be that he saw that you are good enough to start benefiting from a better instrument.
The E-11's are very, very good but not "great".
It also really depends on what your playing goals are.
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-08-29 14:19
David wrote:
>Remember this one - if you teacher is qualified (not a hack, but knows what he is doing) you should listen to him.
I guess my teacher is pretty qualified. He has btw. studied also with Neidich like you. He teaches at a certain music institute. And here where I live, there isn´t many clarinet teachers teaching at music institutes who are not qualified, because the competition from teacher´s positions is so hard.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-29 14:26
Absolutely qualified then.
Didn't know if it was just a Band Director or not - many band directors teach their students which can be ok, but usually not.
So listen to your teacher 
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Author: Clarinetist
Date: 2004-08-29 20:07
LeOpus1190s wrote:
>are you European? The R-13 is a bit more standard in the states.
Yeah, I´m a Finn. In Finland The RC and RC prestige are the most popular models. There aren´t too many music shops here who sell clarinets and none of them is selling The R-13. So, I guess the R-13 is not that popular in here. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2004-08-30 04:24
First of all, you shouldn't do anything that you don't WANT to do... If you are concerned about how other people feel you sound, then that's a sign of you playing your instrument for other people and not for simple enjoyment... How YOU feel you sound is most important... If you look to someone else to tell you how you sound, then you'll end up sounding just like them... Look at all these famous clarinetists with their own unique sounds... They are obviously playing for the enjoyment of it all, because their sounds are UNIQUE!! However, to get the basics you should listen to your instructors, and take the constructive critisism from them... What they have to say is important, and if you have a tonedeaf ear or something like that you might see what they have to say until you become really good and your ear is trained to what sounds good... After you have learned all the basics, then you can go off of how YOU feel you sound like, and create your own sound...
Post Edited (2004-08-30 04:25)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-08-30 16:43
There is one thing about listening to yourself...it is pretty annoying!!! I have never really liked my own sound but profess to thinking after about 25 years of playing one tends to get more critical of sound and more so what players are doing with their sound!
Stoltzman who is a great player tends to drive me nuts...yet in the same instance I admire his bravura and technique... As to playing a solo player is quite different from an orchestral player. I have long admire Leister and Pascal Moragues...I find they both produce a round focused tone that is very velvety.
As to your own individual sound this is something that will evolve..especially if you are young. Older players like myself tend to be more narrow because one begins to feel what works best is the easiest and most expedient way to go....I tend to use a very resistant set up..4 reeds and Hite pieces. As to others they go about similar problems differently...the key is whether you get results and will produce a sound that is both warm and capable of projection.
As to band students the real key is blend...I tend to find so many younger players work at producing a strident and overpowering sound that it negates what they are trying to do in terms of the music and phrasing!
The real key is to have a sound that adapts itself well to all repetoire and of course the prerequisite technique to enable achievement of this goal!
David Dow
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Author: Meri
Date: 2004-08-30 17:16
How I feel I sound...based on the feedback on how most people think I sound.
Meri
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Author: RCJ
Date: 2004-08-30 19:39
Interesting topic. I think everyone should play for their own enjoyment, and everybody is entitled to their own concept of what is a pleasing sound. However, as explained above, the sound you hear while playing is not quite the same sound that your teacher or an audience hears. I remember the first time I ever heard a recording of my own voice. I couldn't believe it was me! The difference in playing an instrument is not so dramatic but it is there. Try to record yourself playing. You might find that what sounds best "in your head" is slightly lacking "in the room". I want to play with (and for) other people, not just alone in my room. So I'm trying to correlate how I sound to myself with how I sound to everyone else.
Bottom line, though: If your teacher thinks you sound good -- you probably do!
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-08-31 02:37
Just a thought, FWIW - I would think that one would first need to conciliate the two. That is, if what you are attempting to sound like is completely different from what most people are wanting you to sound like, even if you buy that new Clarinet that sounds good to everyone else, you'll still be attempting to "bend" the sound more to your own liking, yes? So even then, the sound won't be the sound that everyone agreed that they liked. Perhaps when your standards for good sound agree with everyone else's standards, that would be the time to invest in a new Clarinet? That is, of course, assuming that you're playing for the audience, and not personal enjoyment. And then again, perhaps a little uniqueness in the sound never hurt anyone. Synthesizers can match sounds exactly a lot better than we can.
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Author: Markus Wenninger
Date: 2004-09-01 06:36
Really, as mentioned in several post above, the distinction between personal idea of how to sound and other people´s, viz teachers/audience, perception/ideal of sound appears to be rather superficial. Neither is there anyone completely without any own conception of how she/he wants the clarinet to sound like, be it an idol´s,be it the sound between one´s own ears, nor is the reception of any sound exactly the same, or even congruent, in respect to the performer and those listening. The most fundamental,crucial thing for a performer is to get the inner sound really clear, to make what the performer´s ears perceive and what her/his will wants the clarinet to sound like one and the same. It seems hazardous to me, if it´s "whom are you playing for" that makes the opinion of the teacher´s authority relevant, and if one played "just for her/himself", than it´d be okay to be completely subjective; this is rather nonsense. The point is, if there´s a difference between how You think You´re sounding and what the teacher says (there´s always such a difference, because You´re 2 people - there´s just no such thing at all as a third party´s objective), for what reasons is that so? No reasonable teacher will insist on a peculiar sound if the pupil thinks this sound awful, and no pupil will fancy the idea that her/his sound is wonderful if the teachers just so much as wrinkles her/his nose. A good teacher brings the pupil to a niveau where the latter is able to know what her/his inner sound is like; the thing is to realize that an instrument has a sound already when one snaps open the case - it is this sort of total attention to any and all sound a teacher has to evoke in his/hr pupil. In my opinion, the relevant difference is between technical (how to finger a certain tone, intonate it, rhythm, dynamics, how to rea etc, how to handle this tool) and aesthetic knowledge: only the former can be taught. As Mary said, no audience appreciates a performer who plays without an individual,personal sound, nothing is more boring and irrelevant ,musically speaking, than a performer with just a correct rather than her/his own sound. This is not at all to say that personal inspiration or simple subjectivity rules over pitchintonation etc, what I want to say is that it´s naive to aspire to something like an obejctively good sound (doesn´t exist), instead of an intersubjectively good sound (appears when ripe technique meets the demands of the performer´s inner sound, and this is externalisable alone).
Markus
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