 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2004-08-28 02:35
I'm a freshman this year and I auditioned and made the top band at a nearby high school, which has an exceptional band program and director. Anyway, I got in on both Bb clarinet and after a light and brief Eb audition, I also made it in on Eb soprano clarinet. We are playing "Rocky Point Holiday" by Ron Nelson and "American Salute" by Gould. The pieces sit on notes between altissimo E and G for long periods of time, and I haven't been able to hit those notes and stay up there while tonguing. The notes usually end up dropping down to "empty" notes. I don't know how to get a good tone on such notes while still staying together with the rest of the band. As of now, I've dropped some of them down an octave, but I haven't consulted anyone yet and I don't think that it's preferable that I do so. I am having a lot of trouble staying in tune and reaching the high notes. Any suggestions? I've only been playing for about 3 months and my teacher isn't too knowledgable about eefers.
-MG
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Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2004-08-28 04:32
There are so many factors to consider when it comes to playing the Eb clarinet. I think for the board to be able to give you our best advice, it would be helpful if you could answer a few questions:
1. What kind of Eb clarinet are you playing on (make/model)?
2. What mouthpiece and ligature are you using?
3. What kind of reed are you using?
These factors make a big difference. However, I'll give you a few points of advice having gone through the same problems when I first started the Eb. Even if you are stuck playing a plastic Bundy, the mouthpiece/reed/ligature combination makes a huge difference. If you are playing on a school instrument and the mouthpiece and lig are just "stock" pieces, it might be worth it to discuss, with the band director, the possibility of replacing these. Depending on the band budget, it may or may not work out. Otherwise, you could always purchase them on your own and then keep them for later use.
Talking about mouthpieces can go so many directions on the board. Basically, you will want the highest quality professional level mouthpiece. There are many good ones out there. Personally, I used Greg Smith's Eb mouthpiece and a BG ligature. The combination worked well for me on a Buffet Eb. I would also suggest looking into the Brad Behn pieces. Those are my suggestions. I'm sure you'll hear plenty others. Whatever you get, just make sure it is not a "stock" piece and not an entry level student or intermediate mouthpiece (although these would be better than a stock piece).
Reeds play a big part in how those high notes come out. If you are using Eb clarinet reeds (like Vandoren, blue box), they may be too thin for your needs. A little secret I learned from my prof in Nebraska: Buy Vandoren white master reeds. These are cut for the German Bb mouthpieces, but also fit the width of the Eb mouthpiece. You'll need a few tools though, because about 1/4 of an inch of the butt of the reed will have to be sliced off. Also, when you compare a white master to a traditonal Bb reed or Eb, you'll notice that the white master does not have the horizontal cut in the bark of the reed that separates it from the bark and the vamp of the reed. You have to make this line and then shave away the excess bark. It's a difficult process to explain through writing, but if you have a private teacher that knows how to work with reed knives, they can probably translate all of this to you if it does not make sense. (Otherwise, I'd be glad to mail you some sketches if you want to email me directly). The reason that this little "secret" weapon works better than the typical Eb reeds, is because the heart of the reed is a bit thicker. It is difficult to get a solid tone in the upper register on reg. Eb reeds (IMHO). Using these modified white masters gives you more of the feeling of a Vandoren V12. You'll get much more support from the reed that way.
Other than equipment, you have to alter your approach to the Eb as opposed to the Bb. The angle is going to have to be a bit closer to your body in order to line the mouthpiece up correctly. It is a shorter instrument, therefore you can't hold it out from your body as much as you can with the Bb. So, pull it in closer to you. Next, as you travel to the upper register, make sure you have plenty of mouthpiece in your mouth and then make sure that you are not biting. The voicing is even more sensitive on the Eefer than on the Bb. Your tongue has got to stay high in your mouth as if to say "eee" and "uuuu" at the same time... "Eu". You must be conscience of the tip of your tongue. While the middle of your tongue stays high in your mouth, the tip can help out with the voicing by coming forward a bit. Think about what happens to your tongue when you are trying to whistle a very high note. Finally, if your altissimo register is not very strong on the Bb clarinet, this may not come very naturally for you on the Eb. However, as I learned to control the upper register of the Eefer, my upper register on Bb improved dramatically. So, continue to work on your altissimo on the Bb and see if some of that can transfer over to the Eefer as you try to apply some of the ideas mentioned above.
Hope this helps or at least gets you started in a good direction.
K. Denny
BME, MM, DMA
Post Edited (2004-08-30 01:45)
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2004-08-28 04:51
1. What kind of Eb clarinet are you playing on (make/model)?
I'm not sure the make or model, but it's a wooden Leblanc, professional model... I hear its dated to sometime around the '70s... school horn.
2. What mouthpiece and ligature are you using?
Vandoren 5RV, Vandoren inverted
3. What kind of reed are you using?
VD blue box 3.5
I have a lot of biting troubles, even on Bb clarinet so that may be a contributing factor...
-MG
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Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2004-08-28 15:58
Attachment: 1. side by side Blue Box vs White Master.jpg (20k)
Attachment: 2. Showing cutting off butt.jpg (23k)
Attachment: 3. slicing shoulder line into bark.jpg (22k)
Attachment: 4. Visual of shoulder line.jpg (24k)
Attachment: 5. Removing bark above shoulder line.jpg (20k)
I've taken some pictures of the process of modifying the white master reeds. Here are the photo descriptions:
1. side by side comparison of a blue box Eb reed and white master reed.
2. this photo shows a knife cutting off the butt end of the white master.
3. this photo shows where the horizontal line must be sliced into the reed to make the separation between the bark and the vamp. You do not have to slice very much into the reed. Just enough to make a separation.
4. this photo shows the reed after the horizontal slice has been cut into it.
5. this photo shows how the excess bark has to be removed. Begin from the horizontal cut, and shave away from it toward the vamp of the reed. Hold the knife at an angle so that the end product is smooth. Once you have removed this bark, the reed is ready to go (aside from your own personal balancing and adjusting of the tip and rails).
K. Denny
Sorry for the blank post above. I'm not sure how I managed to do that.
BME, MM, DMA
Post Edited (2004-08-28 16:00)
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2004-08-28 16:27
Wow Kristen- that was very helpful to me too.
I'm starting on Eb in wind ensemble, too. I've been playing on the school's Leblanc Esprit which is about 5-7 years old. I also got a Clark Fobes Nova Eb mouthpiece over the summer, and have been using Grand Concert Evolution Bb reeds (my spare reeds since I usually use Gonzalez) since I haven't been able to get any Gonzalez Eb reeds from my teacher yet. I've also been using the school's stock Leblanc ligature, because the Bonade inverted I bought doesn't fit over the Fobes + a cut down Bb reed very well, and has already made a scratch on the mouthpiece (logo side, fortunately).
My upper clarion B is about 30 cents sharp without me remembering, and when I can adjust (meaning not bite like I tend to on Eb) I can get it pretty close. This is quite a problem, because while I can get up to high G- my highest note in the pieces we're playing, I can't get them in tune. Also, when I articulate high notes the intonation seems like an extremely loose variable. We're playing Grantham's Southern Harmony, Jai ete au bal and the Vaughn Williams Toccata Marziale- as far as pieces with Eb parts go, and we're performing in October, so I'm pretty worried since I've only had the Eb for a week and a half. My technique and tone have gotten lots better so far, so that's a good sign.
Bradley
I've also gotten to dislike the piccolo player sitting next to me during rehearsals- he's pretty intune, so I wrestle with him constantly for pitch since I haven't gotten my embouchure used to Eb yet.
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Author: starlight
Date: 2004-08-28 17:32
What a coincidence. I've been just given an eefer too from the band director. From the numerous "horror stories" I've looked at on this board about the eflat clarinet, I am pretty worried about it. Is it really extremely diffucult from the b-flat clarinet I am used to? By the way, I am from the States. Last year my band made it to the state finals! I am a junior this year.
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Author: Jobsys
Date: 2004-08-28 18:26
I played once in a military band in the UK.
Having played a Bflat instrument all my life I was "promoted" to play an
Eflat. The result was disastrous.
After having had a concert quality tone I started sounding like a banshee!
My solution was to swap the Bflat mouthpiece onto the Eflat. After that it played like a dream, I suppose that being able to use the same embouchure stopped me from playing the somewhat narrower mouthpiece supplied with the Eflat.
This may give you a quick fix whilst you can continue to experiment with different mouthpieces.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-08-28 18:44
Jobsys wrote:
> My solution was to swap the Bflat mouthpiece onto the Eflat.
That's a very curious solution, since the bore of the Bb is roughly 14.64mm and the Eb clarinet is roughly 13.10mm.
The tenon receiver on the Eb clarinet would also have to be altered to accept the Bb mouthpiece...GBK
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2004-08-28 18:54
Thank you for your help... the reed working idea... I'm not so sure I can do it. I don't think I have the right tools, but you have to keep in mind I'm still 14. My teacher takes the quite "traditional" approach that Eb clarinets need Eb reeds, so I don't think she'd be up for helping me. She says 99% of problems are from the player, 1% from the instrument. Do you have any tips that I could put into effect immediately?
Thank you,
MG
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Author: kdennyclarinet
Date: 2004-08-28 21:26
I don't think I can agree with the statistics your teacher provides.... a lot of times it IS the instrument or the setup... but that opens up a big can of worms (especially on this board). :-)
For immediate solutions, just try to do the things I mentioned above. Bring the angle closer to your body, take in enough mouthpiece, keep your tongue high thinking "eu", and blow fast air. Keep the corners of your lips firm, use your upper lip to cushion down onto the top of the mouthpiece, and by all means, try your darndest to not bite!
Best of luck!
K. Denny
BME, MM, DMA
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-08-29 03:54
I undestand K. Denny is trying to help, but I have to disagree.
It is possible to play everything (and play it well) with an Eb reed. Your mouthpiece and ligature are good. To me 3.5 reeds are a little too hard but maybe not for you. Did your teacher try your Eb clarinet with the same setup? what did he say about it?
The only advice I can give you really is to practice those difficult high notes, and also practice them with your teacher. There is nothing wrong with your setup really.
Hope this helps a bit.
Post Edited (2004-08-29 06:19)
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Author: eeferboy82
Date: 2013-04-18 19:23
I would also recommend experimenting with fingerings. If you approach the altissimo register of the Eb clarinet with the standard Bb altissimo fingerings, you'll find most of them to be out of tune. On Eb, you really have to get creative, pariticularly if your horn isn't cooperating. I've even heard of Eb players playing the note a half step above and bringing it down to the correct pitch as that is sometimes easier than trying to get a flat note higher. There are some pretty good fingering charts online with tons of alternate/experimental fingerings. For the opening of American Salute, the repeated altissimo E's, I would recommend using an overblown midstaff Bb, just the A key and register key. It works like a dream for me.
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Author: eeferboy82
Date: 2013-09-20 02:33
I'd assumed as much but figured the reply might still help others who might be searching for a similar issue.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-09-20 21:33
The OP has probably gone through both high school and college and the Eb clarinet long forgotten!
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